suprfast

We all know that the FD brakes are not shabby but they can use some help. I have been pondering as to why there are weak compared to big brake kits, and why most sports cars brakes just are not top notch.
What is the major difference between the stock FD brakes and aftermarket brakes that are simliar sizes(im talking complete brake kit, calipers included). Are the calipers made from different materials? Is it because they are usually larger and disipate more heat? I have seen six piston caliper wilwoods, but are they better if the surface area of the pistons are ~ to the FD's piston surface area. Ive seen ceramic rotors!!!, could that be it. I just want to know. I know that the FD would fade if trying to stop on a dime time after time. Wilwood, brembo, etc...would lose a few feet each time, but there would be chance with that dime stopping everytime. They just wont fade to nothing. They always bite, unless the pads blow up. Someone enlighten me, i hope my questioning was direct and makes sense. it made sense in my head. if anything needs to be rephrased please, let me know. something that i have been sitting on for an hour or so.
kris

Fatman0203

The stock FD brakes are actually more than adequate for the car. I think their 11 inch ?!? Thats considered HUGE for the amount of weight that car weighs. An average updgraded car with proper pads and brake fluid could use the stock brakes. Once you jump over 300hp probably then you would need the big brake kit. The kits have bigger pistons and calipers that disipitate heat better and give a better and harder, more consistant bite. There are other factors too, that people will touch up on.

Fatman0203

BTW if your getting significant fade, check your fluid.

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

Big brake kits include 2 key components, larger calipers, and larger rotors. The big thing you want in a good brake setup is a good brake pad/surface ratio. Sure you could put a set of monster calipers on a stock rotor, but it wouldnt do much good because the rotor would heat up very quickly and fade (among other things). The milti-piston calipers are used to get uniform brake pressure across the whole area of the caliper. Some even have smaller pistons towards the front as to not induce the edge of the brake pad from digging into the rotor surface. You need a larger rotor , because it dissapates more heat, and has a larger overall surface area for the larger caliper to grab to.

rynberg

Stock rotors just aren't large enough to absorb enough heat = pads fade, fluid boils, calipers get toasted.

Almost no factory car has good enough brakes for track use (except for the serious Porsches, Ferraris, etc).

All that said, the stock FD brakes are awesome for street driving and auto-x. If you aren't regularly tracking the car, there is ZERO need for bigger brakes.

suprfast

Would there be a need if you daily drive your car and its in the 450hp range, or would it be adequate to just make sure the stock system is top notch and then some?
kris

rynberg

It doesn't matter if you have a 1000 rwhp. On the street, you will never drive hard enough to fade the stock brakes. If you do, then there's either something wrong with your brake system or you should be arrested.

Yes, I'm sure a bigger BALANCED system, like the Stoptech kit, would probably stop a few feet shorter from speeds over 100 mph, but that depends entirely on your tires. I can engage ABS at fairly high speeds with Hawk HP+ pads on Toyo T1-S tires, so you would have to be going well into the triple digits for a big brake kit to do anything at all for shortening stopping distances. And as Stoptech rightly points out, most of the big brake kits on the market make the front/rear braking balance even worse and can actually INCREASE stopping distances.

If you are not running at the track and want the best braking performance on the street, run Hawk HP+ or similar pad and USE GOOD TIRES. The tires are what stop the car. It always makes me slap my forehead when I see people do handling and wheel "upgrades", and then put on cheap shitty tires.

suprfast

Thanks ryn...im asking because i blew the engine and will be upgrading power very soon. I really havent gotten into tracking the FD yet, but i want to way in the future. I autoX it from time to time(2002 ASP champ, fresno chapter) and i never felt my brakes gave out(well the stockers did, so i went to hp+ with brake lines and valv syn. brake fluid). car felt a tad bit better. The only other thing i will change might be the master cyl. to the 929. why, just cause i guess. I was having a problem with the ABS and since its a 93 there is no way to see where the problem is(any way of upgrading the 93 abs electronics to 94??). For the soon future i will be running the stock brakes(rebuild calipers, etc...). it always got my eyes to feel like they were about to jump out the front of my head. I also had SO3's so crappy tires are not on my car. Ive been in a few cars that had the 712's and all i can say is yuck. ABS had to work double time cause the tires wouldnt stick. thanks for your info and if you want to chime in more please do. i like hearing from those that have been on the boards for some time
kris

jimlab

Looks like no one has mentioned the most important reason for upgrading to bigger brakes/rotors... 19" wheels.

suprfast

DIZAMN...you got me. that was the real reason why i wanted to go to the bigger brakes. uh...spreewells(i swear i didnt read that disclaimer before coming in here)
kris

DamonB

Everything about Brakes by Grassroots Motorsports A must read!

jimlab

You just think I'm kidding.

suprfast

those are not spreewells
kris

Rhode_Dog

TE-37s or LE-37s? i can't remember

grinn253

Okay, hopefully i'm not 'taking the bait' for something but, after reading the link from DamonB: Everything about Brakes by Grassroots Motorsports and what Rynberg mentions; I'm under the impression that even with 19" wheels larger brakes are not necessarily needed. Unless the reasoning is that 19" wheels may stress (heat) up more the stock system?

Thanks!
Edgardo

maxcooper

The point about the 19"s was that they make the stock brakes look puny, creating a strong motivation for the owner to seek larger brakes for aesthetic reasons.

I think we should call Jim's polished Volks "JL-37s".

-Max

3isacharm

don't forget to upgrade the squishy stock brake lines for steel braided ones. i know i'm stating the obvious, but i'd hate to see someone spend all that money and not have the performance they want/need because of a small detail. and yes, the larger wheels will put more stress on the brakes, inertia is a bitch.

on a side note, and i know many of you have seen/heard this before, track days put much more stress on a braking system than an autox because at an autocross you're only in it for one or two short laps. at a track day you're stopping over and over again, and from higher speeds.