I want my car to dive into the turns. When i lift of the gass i want this thing to dive in. I want it to where small throttle adjustments is a must due to how aggressive it is set. Im sure you guys get what im trying to achieve. A very sensitive car for slower corners.


What adjustments do i have to make to make my car handle as i described.

I would like to stay away from toe adjustments also.

 

You're going to need an understanding of the complete suspension system to answer/understand the question you have asked. I would recommend picking up How To Make Your Car Handle by Fred Puhn.




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If i could just drive my car more often i wouldnt be asking this.
Thanks for the suggestion.

Have you achieved such a setup with an FC? I drive an Fc by the way=)

 

What you are asking for is mainly achieved with adjustments to the alignment and you've already said you don't want to touch the toe settings. So besides upgrading some components of your suspension I don't know what to tell you.

Let me ask you something, what car are using as a comparison to this? What was your last car?

 

Tires, Brakes, Suspension, and Chassis.

Combination of all 4. Depends on car setting.

 

What kind of driving experience do you have? Any seat time on a racetrack or auto-x?

If no, sign up for an event and just drive. The only adjustment you need is the one behind the steering wheel.

 

I have been wondering about a similar question too. Although I need seat time as well, the difference is obvious between an 06 Mazda6 and the fc. I know mcpherson vs double A-arms comparison is a big factor, but if a fix is reasonably possible, I'd like to do it. The fc just seems to need to "load up" the suspension before the car actually starts to change direction. That delay between steering input to weight transfer to actual movement is something I would like to decrease. A strut bar seems to help, but not get rid of the problem. Items I've thought about are tires with a better "turn-in" rating, aftermarket bushings, stiffer front sway bar. Any ideas or comments welcome.

 

Sounds like you're looking for swaybars and heavier springs. But really, before you start spending your money, take the time to learn a bit about how it all works. Otherwise, you'll just be learning what you "should've done" in the first place (like I did).

I've built up a FB, but never an FC. However, a lot of the theory is the same...

 

Thanks for the advice. I do a lot more reading on here than posting. I understand the stiff sway bar and springs help prevent body roll and the resultant increase in effective camber in mid corner. That is not quite what I'm after right now. I would like to improve the initial reaction of the car without being toed out so much that the car is unpleasant to drive on a highway. I think this is what the op is trying to ask about as well. If not, I'll start my own thread when I get around to it.

 

I have been drifting since 04. 2 years ago i switch to grip as i had achieved my goals on drifting.

I can drive... good enough=P

 

i have a stock 87 GXL, and i played with all of the alignment settings i could, and here is what i found.

front camber: i could only get about -.5, which didn't do anything. any serious driving is going to need more than that, racing it'll be like -3 to -3.5

front toe: didn't make much difference at all! steering feels best @zero toe, but going to toe out didn't really help turn in. stability on the freeway didn't change much either, even from the factory setting.

rear toe: this was the key on my car. stock toe in is stable all of the time. going to zero toe made it feel AWESOME in tight turns when i could be on the gas, in a residential type turn it feels like it actually makes a square turn, however when you can't be on the gas before the apex, its kind of unstable feeling. so i added one mark on each side of toe in, and i like it.

rear camber; i didn't adjust, but if i could, even on a stock car, i'd take a little out. -1 would be about right, mine is in the -1.3 area, so its close enough.

 

Very interesting. Is that with DTSS bushings? I have only driven with the stock bushings and will probably keep doing so. Mostly so there is something to blame if I spin or do something else noobish.

 

yes. 76K miles, so its stock AAS struts too.

 

What i was really trying to achieve is this. I would like to the car to turn in more on throttle lift.

Right now on decreasing radius turns,for exmaple, when i lift the throttle it doesnt turn as much as i would like. I just want the turn in to be more sensitive.

 

bigger rear sway bar is the easiest answer...

post what your current suspension is, that'll help a lot...

 

Buy an old Porsche!

 

.05-.10 degree toe OUT each side will help a lot with turn in. Most of my cars (toe seems to be a universal setting) run around .08 OUT each side with perfectly even tire wear. Having my cars (Integra and FB) any closer to ZERO actually creates a nasty feathering on the outside of the tires with the way that I drive.

Mess with tire pressures. I've realized EVERYONE over looked pressures although there was a few mentions of compound change. As a base setup, I'd run 34psi F/31psi R HOT. Adjust in 2 psi increments until preferred handling aspects are achieved.

**Rule of thumb: Understeer can be solved with a smaller front to rear bias (higher rear pressure in a FF car, closer to even pressures in FR/MR) and Oversteer can be remedied with a lower rear pressure for an FR car to gain the "squat" factor in the sidewall = larger contact patch.**

Give it a whirl, post your setup, and maybe we can help you fine-tune the car to your liking.

 

What are your current alignment settings??

What are your current suspension settings componets?? Springs sway bars??

Me thinks
-Toe out the rear
-Adjust camber towards + in the front(only if you have extreme - already, might be too much)
-Stiffen the rear sway bars, springs, shocks
-Soften the front.
-Have front tires with more traction than rears.
-Dick with air pressure.
-Don't be a ***** and drive the car better...
-Adjust ride height... front lower rear higher.

 

Honestly, instead of trying to degrade the level of rear traction first, try fiddling with the front and keeping the rear within stock settings.

Front:
-1.5 degrees camber
-.05-.1 Toe Out Each side
+4 degrees caster (lighter steering and less dynamic camber gain if you go lower/heavier steering and more dynamic camber change with higher. However, bumpsteer also increases as does the return to center feed from the steering wheel.)

Rear:
.03-.05 Toe in each side

Sway bars and spring rates will help with the speed of transfer, but considering where you are with your driving, it would be best to tune with what you have first.

 

I know what the OP means...

I have an '08 Mazda3 base model and it makes my built FC and FD feel a bit like barges in normal to spirited driving. Mazda is getting this driving feel thing down seriously well lately.

Instead of trying to decrease rear traction maybe concentrate on getting things to happen a little faster back there.

Wider wheels with a little stretch to the sidewalls get the effects of weight transfer to the contact patch happening sooner. Inflate your tires to the upper end of max.

Stiffen the chassis with a rear strut bar- this helps quite a bit in my experience. Any stiffening of rear suspension subframe (subframe spacers or solid mounts) and suspension mounting points will help (auto-x style rear subframe bars).

Solid engine mounts or torque brace so when you lift gas it affects the rear tires more directly.

Rear shocks with more aggressive damping or spring rate will help it rotate but at the expense of how soon you can get on the gas exiting turns. Of course if you can't get the car pointed the right way with rotation you can't get on the gas either- so there is a balance here.

From my FD experience (stock 4/3 springs on STIFF GAB to 11/11 springs on soft Ohlins) and my FC experience (7/5 on TOO STIFF JIC FLT-A2s, 7/5 on soft FLT-TAR and 8/6 on medium Stance XR) I would start to jack up rear spring rate before jacking up damping to get it to rotate without compromising early throttle on too badly.

If you figure more out let me know.

 

Do most people on the forum dotheir own alignments?
My cars drifting right. Does anyone know a good tire shop in the Washington DC area to get it aligned? Thanks.

 

 

a lot of the racers do, we make a lot of changes to the car, and not only is an alignment machine expensive, but there isn't one at the track...

on a street car, the machine is viable, because you aren't changing alignment all the time

for a drift problem, you should rotate the tires and see if it changes.

 

Thanks!

I just had the suspension rebuilt. I'll drive it for a few days and then take it in for an alignment/rotation.

 

Here you go.

Oversteer
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Understeer
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