nicobaires

Has anyone tried these on the track?
http://www.cobaltfriction.com/produc...dProduct=52973

A couple of weeks ago was my firts time road racing and I felt that I needed to upgrade my brakes. The car handled like a dream but I was scared Sh*t when I had to stop and the brakes started fading. I am currently running stock everthing on the brakes except for Hawk HPS pads and I felt and so did my instructer that I need more stopping power.

So i was wondering if just upgrading the brake lines, bads and discs would cut it or do I need a big brake upgrade?

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

For a novice a set of decent pads will suffice. The HPS pads are a hi-perf *street* pad and not up to the demands of track use. SS line a wise investment in any case.
Hawk Blue's are a reputable track pad. I used them for many years before switching over to a Performance Friction 01 compound. You will hear many suggestions for brake pads for track use but I'd recommend sticking to a dedicated track pad rather than a compromise street/track pad. No need to "upgrade" the discs. The stockers are fine. BBK is not necesssary until you really start to modify your car and/or until you become a more "advanced" driver.
Regards,
Crispy

nicobaires

I hear you and thats what I was told and thats why I got the Hawp pads figuering it should be enough, but it really wasn't once I was out there. Everything else on the car is basically modified except for the brakes and seat belts.
I don't know if I overheated them or what but the car was not stopping.




here's a shot of me on the track to keep it interesting

http://gallery.pdadrivingschool.com/...09LRP_Grn_8250

rynberg

The HPS is just plain dangerous on the track.

Listen to Crispy, although personally, I would avoid the Hawk Blues. There are other track pads (Porterfield, etc) that may cost a bit more but they don't have nightmarish corrosive dust. I'm done with Hawk pads period.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I also agree with Crispy. Don't try to straddle track/street performance with the pads; just use a dedicated pad for the track verse the street. You can get by with only changing the front pads for the track and using the upgraded street pads in the rear.

I'm currently using the N-Tech Lapping Day pad:

http://www.ntechengineering.com/inde...d=6&model_id=2

"This pad breaks some established rules. It has lots of initial bite, and an MU of 0.54-0.56. It can be used as both a street pad, due to its cold temperature rotor friendliness, as well as a VERY serious track pad. This is a serious track pad that has high torque and high initial bite, that is still rotor friendly, with moderate dusting, and moderate noise. It has too much intial bite for autocrossing in a light car or on a slow course. The temperature range is 150 degrees up to 1250. If you are serious about your track performance for competition or lapping days, this pad will do the job for you."

I highly recommend these pads for the track-goers on the stock calipers.

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

Upgrade to s/s brake lines, Motul synthetic brake fluid, and a good brake pad on the car should make the stock brakes work great.

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

hehe. Why did I switch from the Hawk Blues to the PF pads? The dust
The blues are a good track pad but the dust really REALLY sucked.

Also keep in mind that braking is typically tire limited not pad limited. The stickier the tire the harder you can work the brakes. ...and the more heat you will generate requiring a more robust brake system.

Brake fade typically is from two reasons
1) hard brake pedal - overheated pads. Upgrade the pads and/or cool the brakes with ducted airflow
2) soft mushy pedal - overheated/boiled brake fluid. Upgrade the fluid (which I would strongly urge you to do also), and/or cool the brakes with ducted airflow.

The biggest factor though when it comes to the brakes is the driver

FWIW,
Crispy

InGroundEffect

I used to exclusively use Hawk pads. Then I tried a set of Porterfield R4S on my 944 Turbo and holy crap was there a big difference.

The Porterfields are not cheap but certainly worth the money. The full race will work adequately for street driving although they sqeal like a thousand stuck pigs when cold.

I ran 4 20 minute sessions at Hallet never had break fade and the pads were hardly worn. I sold the 944 Turbo and sold the pads to a friend with a 944S2. He then ran a two Day DE at Hallet on the same pads. After 3 DE's the pads were hardly 50% worn. Other guys running OE pads at that same event were running metal to metal after less than one day.

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

although they sqeal like a thousand stuck pigs when cold......

I know that sound well....

Hawk HP+ work well... but dust like a ****. Good street/track pad.

EBC Greens are good street/light track pad. EBC Reds are more track oriented.

-Mark

DamonB

I'm currently running Porterfield R4S. Compared to Hawk HP+ the Porterfield is completely quiet but still dusts; perhaps not as much dust as the HP+ but certainly enough I still have to scrub often. Cold bite on the R4S is not near as aggressive as the HP+ is and that's what I really like about the HP+.

I have not made it to a real race track yet with the R4S but so far on street and autox the R4S gives me less aggressive brakes with no noise, nearly the same dust as the HP+ and costs almost twice as much as the HP+.

SpeedracerRX7

Do the N-Techs have corrosive dust. I had the HP+'s and they ate up my stock rim finish. I am still trying to get the pitting out of them. I now have a set of rims off a 97 Bathurst RX-7 that are powdercoated black from the factory and weight in at 13 lbs each. I would like to keep from eating the clear coat off of them when I go to the track if I could.

Edit: Can I get away with running HPS's on the rear during a track day or should I buy track pads for them too? They're just what I have been using on the street and it is such a pain to change those out at the track. Are a set of N-Tech's lapping pads streetable, as in mostly track driving, just drving the car too and from the track mostly?

rynberg

According to Mahjik, the N-tech's have non-corrosive dust.

However, if you have actual paint damage from HP+ pads, it's because you went way too long without washing it off.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

The N-Tech Lapping pads are not streetable. They are 'OK' to drive to and from the event with.... When I say 'OK', I mean they won't tear up your rotors. However, you won't be able to stop for crap with them on street driving so I don't recommend trying them for every day driving. When driving to an event with them on the highway, I leave about 10+ car space from the person in front of me to make sure I can slow down in case of a problem.

It usually takes me about 4-5 turns depending on the weather to get them warmed up and grabbing on the track. Like the description says, they have a hard initial bite so you definitely know when they are warmed up.

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

Out of curiosity, do any of you know what the average temperature the pads heat up to on a serious outting at a course like Road Atlanta? I've never actually thought about how hot the brakes get temp-wise. I know you should select your pad type and compound based on personal feedback, but I just wanted an idea, if you knew.

I ask, because a lot of the Japanese pads out there are catagorized by heat range, and I wanted to try something new, as opposed to the tried and true Portfields, Hawks, Axxis, etc. Just something different from the norm. Thanks for your input guys!

rynberg

I can't answer your question directly, but I can tell you that I could easily fade a set of HP+ at Buttonwillow (2-3 HARD braking zones/lap) and the MOT on HP+ is 850F. I don't know how hard Road Atlanta is on brakes, but I'm guessing that 1000F+ would be fairly easy to see on a hard brake track, especially with race tires.

macdaddy

I've been real pleased with Carbotech brake pads. http://www.carbotecheng.com/
Give Matt or Larry a call, tell him what you're doing and see which of their compounds they recommend (they also sell Hawks and some other brands). I typically use the Panther XP9s or 10s for the front with Panther Plus in the rear for a track car (R-compound tires, race-level driving). I agree with the gurus above - use street pads for the street and dedicated track pads for the track - it takes maybe 15 minutes to change front pads once you've done it a few times. Some folks in Spec Miata use Cobalt brake pads, and I've heard mostly good things about them - just haven't tried them myself.