Track Tires? Expert Help Needed
09-22-12, 08:52 AM
#1
Track Tires? Expert Help Needed
Thought I'd throw this out to the track experts - What do you feel is the best tire for the track? Not drag racing, but tracking (Road Atlanta, VIR) and some occasional auto crossing. Would like to drive to the track in these.
What say you?
What say you?
09-23-12, 09:46 AM
#4
All track tires have really stiff sidewalls, so the shorter the are the more it's exacerbated. 335/30's will be a bit better than 285/30's. The Toyos are probably a good choice if you're going to drive to and from the track, but ALL track tires suffer from heat cycling eventually, so if you street drive them you'll diminish the performance a bit.
Don't buy Hoosiers until you're ready to buy nothing else. Have fun!
Don't buy Hoosiers until you're ready to buy nothing else. Have fun!
09-23-12, 10:01 AM
#5
^ Thanks for the info Peter. Am thinking of trying to pick up a tire sponsor but just don't know what to ask for.
As a street car that will see occasional track use, thought it might be a good thing to have a set of track tires to slap on the car for track use and then to switch back to the Michelins for daily driving.
About how long would a set of track tires last, assuming I'm not driving at the level you guys do?
As a street car that will see occasional track use, thought it might be a good thing to have a set of track tires to slap on the car for track use and then to switch back to the Michelins for daily driving.
About how long would a set of track tires last, assuming I'm not driving at the level you guys do?
09-23-12, 11:10 AM
#6
For a street tire that is good on the track, I would go with something like the Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec, Kumho XS, Nitto NT05, etc... This is a tire that will be fine for your car (limited driving on the street). The dunlops don't come in the size you need, but the other two I suggested do. I just picked up some Kumho VS12's for my C5Z. It's not quite as aggressive as above, but I'll do some AutoX's and a few laps on the track and it'll be fine.
Also, look into moving increasing your front tire size. If I remember correctly, you had like 245's in the front with 335's in the rear. 285's would probably get you more in the ball park. Otherwise, you are just going to push like crazy.
Also, look into moving increasing your front tire size. If I remember correctly, you had like 245's in the front with 335's in the rear. 285's would probably get you more in the ball park. Otherwise, you are just going to push like crazy.
09-23-12, 11:17 AM
#7
R comps such as the A048 and R888 will last 3-6k miles however they will probably heat cycle out sooner.
Much debate to be had if anyone can even get them hot enough on the street to consider it a heat cycle. From experience, A048's will go 20+ heat cycles and I've read/heard the Toyo R888's do not diminish as much performance like the A048's do.
A second set of street wheels is the perfect solution. When race day comes, swap on the R comps and go drive to the track.
Much debate to be had if anyone can even get them hot enough on the street to consider it a heat cycle. From experience, A048's will go 20+ heat cycles and I've read/heard the Toyo R888's do not diminish as much performance like the A048's do.
A second set of street wheels is the perfect solution. When race day comes, swap on the R comps and go drive to the track.
Trending Topics
09-23-12, 11:25 AM
#8
Thanks for all the help guys. I think I need to be more clear: I am going to keep the Michelin PS2s for the street and then swap out to a track tire for events. Wanted to be able to slap these on here in Asheville, drive to said event, then back to Asheville where I will swap them out for the Michelins. So the only "street" driving on the track tires will be to and from the track.
Brent, the front size is 245 on a 9.5 inch rim. Do you think a 285 will fit for track events? I first tried 255s but they rubbed. I then went to a spacer so maybe something large will fit? Dunno.
Brent, the front size is 245 on a 9.5 inch rim. Do you think a 285 will fit for track events? I first tried 255s but they rubbed. I then went to a spacer so maybe something large will fit? Dunno.
09-23-12, 05:30 PM
#11
If you aren't driving at their level why do you need a set of dedicated track tires? Why not use high performance street tires as Brent suggested? The first question to ask is what track experience do you have? One track day and you're already in need of dedicated track tires? Why not learn to drive the car to its limit with a street tire then consider something more aggressive?
09-23-12, 06:01 PM
#12
^ I really hope that someday the forum will get back to civility. In that spirit I will ignore the above and carry on.
It would be helpful to read the question and comments though before posting like the above. The general consensus here already is to go with R compound tires like the Toyos or Yokohamas. The question is based on my desire to save my ubber expensive Michilen PS2s and to replace them with tires for occasional track use. Seems like a winning idea.
Thanks to the experts for the advice. I am just getting into the track scene so I am learning as I go. I think other green or blue drivers will appreciate the info as well.
It would be helpful to read the question and comments though before posting like the above. The general consensus here already is to go with R compound tires like the Toyos or Yokohamas. The question is based on my desire to save my ubber expensive Michilen PS2s and to replace them with tires for occasional track use. Seems like a winning idea.
Thanks to the experts for the advice. I am just getting into the track scene so I am learning as I go. I think other green or blue drivers will appreciate the info as well.
09-23-12, 06:33 PM
#13
Depending on skill level, I'd probably go for the Toyo RA1 over the Star Specs. If you are new to track driving, then something like the Michelin you are running is a good option and so is the Star Spec for a dual purpose tire.
The RA1 has higher limits and more grip than the Star Specs which means you need to push harder to learn the limits and get a feel for driving at the limits. Both the RA1 and Star Spec are forgiving and communicative at the limits. Both wear well. The RA1 will deal with heat cycles better than the Star Spec and other similar tires. The R888 aren't as forgiving as the RA1.
Hope that helps round out the great info contributed above.
The RA1 has higher limits and more grip than the Star Specs which means you need to push harder to learn the limits and get a feel for driving at the limits. Both the RA1 and Star Spec are forgiving and communicative at the limits. Both wear well. The RA1 will deal with heat cycles better than the Star Spec and other similar tires. The R888 aren't as forgiving as the RA1.
Hope that helps round out the great info contributed above.
09-23-12, 07:41 PM
#14
I like driving on Star Specs for our Subaru race car. We are limited to 190 treadwear or higher in our series.
We can get about 20 hours or track time from one set and we have a fairly mixed bag of driver skill level.
I was just getting set to order a set for my (street) FD.
Jim
We can get about 20 hours or track time from one set and we have a fairly mixed bag of driver skill level.
I was just getting set to order a set for my (street) FD.
Jim
09-23-12, 09:11 PM
#17
If you are looking for mild R-compound tires (R888 A048 NT01 ect) then you should definitely consider the Hankook TD. It has been getting excellent reviews on other boards and looks to be faster than the tires listed above with better wear as well. They have 285/30 18s and 295/30 18s too.
09-23-12, 09:12 PM
#18
Everyone has lots of info on tires and their pros on cons but ultimately, your going to be the only one that can decide which tire best suits your needs. I mean until you get a sponsor that is.
09-23-12, 09:26 PM
#21
Dan's suggestion is a good one for a few reasons. I don't recommend using R Compound tires until you have probably 10 full weekends of HPDE's under your belt. I feel like that is a pretty standard recommendation across the board. The point is for you to build the fundamental skills of performance driving. Having a better tire takes away from the experience due to a better tire provides more grip. It's harder to find the limit. It essentially will mask your mistakes. It will give you a false security on track. It lets you get away with things that you should be learning about your car's handling and how you should react to it. Street tires will last longer and be cheaper Street tires will last significantly longer than R Compound tires as well. I ran something like 20 HPDE days on a set of Star Specs in 2009. I then sold them with around 60% tread on them. They still had plenty of grip.
Ultimately, it boils down to do you want to be a little faster today... or alot faster in the long run. "Give the man a fish, feed him for the day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime."
Ultimately, it boils down to do you want to be a little faster today... or alot faster in the long run. "Give the man a fish, feed him for the day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime."
09-23-12, 09:39 PM
#22
I'd definitely recommend starting out with a high performance street tire.
Starting off with too much tire (r-comps) has a bad tendency to mask bad habits.
the problem is most of the decent ones don't come in the size you'd be looking for. Your best bet is probably a set of Kumho XSs.
Starting off with too much tire (r-comps) has a bad tendency to mask bad habits.
the problem is most of the decent ones don't come in the size you'd be looking for. Your best bet is probably a set of Kumho XSs.
09-23-12, 10:42 PM
#23
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
And this is 100% the reason why you should choose a nice sticky street tire.
Yoko AD08 or Dunlop Star Spec are my recommendation, pending that they carry your tire size.
It would be a mistake to jump right to R-comps given the number of track days you have attended.
Dan's post contained some very good advice, and seemed to be civil enough to me. You're getting advice from many experts, what you do with that advice is up to you
Yoko AD08 or Dunlop Star Spec are my recommendation, pending that they carry your tire size.
It would be a mistake to jump right to R-comps given the number of track days you have attended.
Dan's post contained some very good advice, and seemed to be civil enough to me. You're getting advice from many experts, what you do with that advice is up to you
09-23-12, 10:56 PM
#24
Rotor or no motor
iTrader: (24)
Dan's suggestion is a good one for a few reasons. I don't recommend using R Compound tires until you have probably 10 full weekends of HPDE's under your belt. I feel like that is a pretty standard recommendation across the board. The point is for you to build the fundamental skills of performance driving. Having a better tire takes away from the experience due to a better tire provides more grip. It's harder to find the limit. It essentially will mask your mistakes. It will give you a false security on track. It lets you get away with things that you should be learning about your car's handling and how you should react to it. Street tires will last longer and be cheaper Street tires will last significantly longer than R Compound tires as well. I ran something like 20 HPDE days on a set of Star Specs in 2009. I then sold them with around 60% tread on them. They still had plenty of grip.
Ultimately, it boils down to do you want to be a little faster today... or alot faster in the long run. "Give the man a fish, feed him for the day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime."
Ultimately, it boils down to do you want to be a little faster today... or alot faster in the long run. "Give the man a fish, feed him for the day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime."
Brent and Dan are right
u need to push the car and thats the only way you will learn its limits. Once your lap times are very consistent with each other then move to a stickier tire (something more of a street performance)
David,
I think you took Dan's suggestion the wrong way.But this is the right way to start.
I personally too suggest the Z1 even though i didnt run it that much.
I hear the best of the ad08s but i havent tried them myself
i have toyo R888 on my car now.. They can be quite dangerous on the street as they take some time to warm up. Once they are warm they are pretty nice and pretty good on the track
09-23-12, 11:15 PM
#25
Nope, don''t think I took it the wrong way. The advice isn't bad and as Dan pointed out, had already been offered by others so why restate it and then add in the between the lines stuff? This is what I am speaking of Rich per our recent communications. For more, look at some of my recent posts and then the comments that follow.
It's frustrating to even have to respond to any of this as this thread was started to seek advice on a set of tires that could be used instead of the PS2s on the track. At $450 for the front tires and over $500 for the each rear, I was wondering of there was a better option to put on for track use. I saw some good heat cycling on the PS2s and it took about 300 miles for the gravel to work its way out of the tires on the way home from VIR.
I agree that as a newbie, I need to learn first how to drive and then move on up as I gain experience. So for now, what should I use? Let's assume the PS2s are out due to cost. If so, what are the best options?
Brent has given several good recommendations and so have others. This gives me a good basis of which to begin research. If anyone else has options, I am all ears.
Thank you.