NoOne

I took the 7 to Grattan yesterday after doing the touring shock/eibach spring package recommended to me.

I also put on new solid toe link adjusters, front sway bar solid links and replaced 2 bad pillow ***** in the rear.

235/45/17x8,5 up front, 255/40/17x9 on in the rear. Petit Long Track alignment, sorry I can't dig up the specs.

I went out for my first run as I drove it to the track, 45 degree's, cloudy, damp and a cold cold track. After my first few warm up laps the car got quite a bit better and was more settled than it was before. I did pretty decent and no times, went more by how the car felt to me confidence wise.

After cooling down I set the tire pressure as Howard had recommended, 30 front, 28 rear cold. After another 2 warm up laps the car was amazingly different, felt like new tires there was so much more grip and I was tossing it around quite a bit harder.

I thought for sure with a warmer track and some more heat I'd really be flying. It did warm upto 65 and sunny and again the car improved but there is one spot that really has me stuck.

I've read but never had formal instruction and the thing I keep hearing is use all of the track. There is one sweeping corner that I just cannot get:

http://www.grattanraceway.com/thetrack.html

Its Corner 9. I've gotten 5,6,7, and 8 down pretty good and its easily the fastest part of the track for me. Cars that are faster in other corners I catch in that area pretty hard.

I come out of 8 on the gas in 3rd gear, and the gearing does hurt me since with only a 6200rpm redline I need to shift into 4th but can't. The track map does not show as 9 starts to first curve it gets wider allowing you to use the entire track, but when I try to turn easier and let the car move out there to keep up momentum it feels like I'm going to lose it.

I can only do it at 30-40 percent throttle and even then I hold it for periods. The chassis is so loaded I feel if I shift to 4th it would be just like lifting and I'd up in the grass.

The tighter I pull the corner the better it feels but it leaves me in the wrong spot for the kink at the end of 9 that also is not shown.

Everyone has a tough time with this area and if I could figuire it out, either driving style or change in suspension setup I'd be doing pretty good.

I also know I'm way undertired for the power of the car, thats going to get fixed over the winter, most of those corners I hit it in 3rd and have to deal with it kicking out a bit.

I'm also going to a 3.55 gear. Right now I hit redline just before every braking point, the 3.55 will give me some more room and let me run WOT without shifting until I straighten out on 11 and 12 where I have to wait until I start to come back after 12 before going to redline and hitting 4th.

Overall the car performed perfect and was amazingly reliable. I run most of that track near redline in 3rd and we did 20 minute sessions. The brakes were great, the chassis was great, there is still some work to be done, it got loose a bit, sometimes my fault othertimes when it should not have.

I did go off track in 3, they don't show this but its an offcamber bowl. I tossed the belt either 1 or 2 and it overheated by the time I was coming into three, spun on my own coolant. Pulled it off track, popped the hood, put back on the belt and drove her home, no worse for wear. I knew the original tensioner was bad, all 98 LS1 tensioners were bad, this unit was supposed to be a 99 but apparently not.

Thanks

DamonB

Keep in mind I know absolutely nothing about this track other than what you've posted.

Turn 9 looks interesting. It's is going to be one of those tricky ones because you're accelerating the car hard, probably have to at least breathe it slightly to make it around the "kink" and then on the gas hard again. I have no idea of the grip, camber etc of the track but all you can do is what you were doing: carry as much throttle as you can out of 8 and give up some of your straight line acceleration grip for cornering grip by backing out of the gas as you enter the kink. I assume you do not brake between 8 and 9? If you think the car was going to come loose you're probably right, but you should be able to upshift without upsetting the car. You must decide which is better: Drive through 9 a little slower so you can upshift with less caution and have more room for error in your line or to stand on it and delicately balance the rear end with the throttle and steering while also trying to reach down and upshift. You might be too busy in the car to do it that way. A lap where you stay on the track is always faster than one where you fall off Don't be afraid to shift when it's convenient rather than what the tach says; this may be one of those cases. You want to maximize speed between Turn 9 and 10, not 8 and 9. Give a little up between 8 and 9 so you can get through 9 perfectly and make it up when you're on the power for the extended time between 9 and 10. 9-10 is much more important than 8-9.

Don't drive in fear, drive in the manner you think the car likes.

A lower powered car can probably just stand on it and steer. You have enough power to break the rear end loose there so just be sensible with the throttle and steering.

...all of this from a guy who has no idea about the track or your car. Take it with a grain of salt

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Damon doesn't usually use too much salt, so you can listen to him

My suggestion would be to talk to some of the "veterans" from this track. They will be able to give you some good information from personal experience at this track. It may be that the corner is just a difficult one, and you just have to try to get thru it as clean as you can. Don't be surprised if the "veterans" tell you that corner 9 sucks, and there is no comfortable, smooth way to drive it.

NoOne

Thats possible...

A thiing I forgot to mention. Last year I had a chance to drive the track in a 2002 996 with race tires and their competition brake setup.

This car had less power than mine and the drive kept telling me to go at it harder and harder, not something I was all that excited about doing to someone elses 70K car.

I ran through 5,6,7, and 8 nearly perfect hard on the gas and he said just keep in it through 9. This car had a ton of gear and if I remember right I could almost finish 9 without shifting. I stayed in it, everything was fine, btw the guy who was with me and owned the car was a PCA instructor.

Then, just before the kink, I got into a little wiggle, shook it out and the car was tracking straight again, I was looking at the kink and WHEEE 6 360's at 100mph for no reason at all.

The owner said he didn't know what happened, the guy behind me said it looked like I saved it and shook the wiggle, all way fine, I was even thinking of shifting because of the tires, then it just broke loose.

Stayed on the course, hell it was probably the fastest I had ever made it through that part, we spun at least 6 times and ended up pretty close to the right direction so off we went into the pits.

No one really spins there...maybe for the same reasons I hadn't spun there is because its not a good idea to push it, and the one time I did, I spun.

I'm downloading all the pics, I'll get video and pics of that section. Maps are tough to figuire especially Grattan since its all elevation changes and nearly every corner is blind.

Thanks

artowar

iTrader: (1)

I remember going to Grattan when I was in high school. One of my buddies was racing his GSXR750 there. I remember the "bowl" (and seeing a guy loose his 500 Interceptor in that turn...)

I did some poking around for a track guide, and only found this reference via Google:

http://www.wmr-scca.org/jz30lapofgrattan.htm

Right now it's a dead link, but hopefully it's just offline. You may know this already, but for most road courses, someone has written a "track guide" (or "racer's guide", etc.) with more or less detailed instructions for the line(s), track conditions, braking points, safety hazards, etc. (I've seen some for the West coast tracks that are great).

Another approach is asking the fast guys for help. Who are the fast guys? Well, if you can talk to them, I think that you can probably get some decent tips from:

http://www.grattanraceway.com/trackrecords.html

Finally, here's a general purpose guide that I found. No specific driving tips, but if you go to Grattan a lot there may be some useful info here:

http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks...hp#RacersGuide

Black91n/a

From my experience (2 weekend track schools at Spokane Raceway Park), I'd think it'd be good to try doing a late apex and accelerating all the way through. Remember: Slow in, Fast out. Most of the turns at SRP are late apex and it seems to work well there. It looks similar to turn 8 at SRP and the instructors have us go in a little late to straighten out the path for acceleration (you can accelerate hard from just after turn in, instead of waiting for the corner to be over). They say not to apex the corner until you can see the straightaway after the corner. Also don't be afraid to give it a little bit of braking into 9, as it'll cause the weight to transfer to the front wheels for cornering and it helps settle the car. Just my $.02.

macdaddy

Now you know why it takes so much seat time to be fast, even if you are blessed with natural talent. I don't know Grattan, but I have a few corners of my own that I am never happy with. I don't know your level of experience on the track, so I hope I'm not speaking down to you, but maybe a couple of bits of advice could help.

1. Even though I tend to drive by feel once I know the line, sometimes what feels fast isn't. In other words, while you are trying to figure out a corner, pick a spot - end of the gators at track out, for example- and check your tach there to get a baseline. Then try different braking points and lines - earlier or later apex, etc.- until you find what works best for you and your car (i.e. highest rpms at that reference point). Remember - it's exit speed that counts (and sometimes track position, if it's a "compromise corner"). And frequently, "slow in = fast out."

2. Of course, the quickest way to get a head start on this is to find somebody good in a similar car to ride with you, or you ride with them and see what they are doing.

1st to 3rd

Sorry to get off subject, but Macdaddy, I see you have StopTech brakes listed in your sig. Have you had a chance to flog them yet? What pads are you using, your opinions, highlights, lowlights, etc. on them?
There are some posts concerning install and initial impressions, but I haven’t found write-ups on their track performance.

tkuwaha

iTrader: (18)

Hey, I was just there on the weekend of 10/2 with the BMWCCA in my FD : )
I have bilstein HD struts and Eibach springs on my car and was running on street tires on stock rims.
My car felt the same way as you described between 8 and 10. You're carrying pretty decent speed through Turn 9 and it happens to be at the top of a crest which makes the car light. I was going part throttle over the crest, waited for the suspension to set, then turned in for the kink.
It feels like the rear end of my car feels unstable("wiggles") in these med/high speed sweepers and I don't feel comfortable feeding more gas. If you've been to Waterford Hills (www.waterfordhills.com), I have the same problem through the Big Bend and the Swamp Turn there. This type of turn is where I seem to lose ground to faster cars/drivers.
Grattan is a great track. Lots of elevation changes and blind turns with a pretty long front straight.

NoOne

tkuwaha,

Did you give a guy named Dominick a ride?

He said he went with a guy in an FD just a few weeks before hand and was on hand for my track day.

If you want I can throw your email address on my mailing list. I work for DaimlerChrysler and we do 2 events per year with DCX, Ford, and GM people. Its not work sponsored but its alot of people from work and the auto industry. Be nice to have another FD there.

May and October is when they are held.

Grattan is an awesome track, I haven't done Waterford since no car I've owned will pass their noise restrictions. Plus you cannot rent it as a private individual.

At least I know its just not me

tkuwaha

iTrader: (18)

NoOne,

No, I don't remember a guy named Dominick and I was the only FD at the event. Besides, I was there as a student so I wouldn't have been able to give anyone a ride unless they were instructors.

Throw my email address on your list(tkuwaha@yahoo.com). I've only been to BMW and PCA HPDE's. Grattan's definitely my favorite track in Michigan.

Funny you mention the noise restriction at Waterford. I got black flagged this year for excessive noise. I live close enough so I went home and returned with the stock catback.

Any idea what kind of lap times you were turning at Grattan? The best I could manage was 1:37(based on my in-car camera). There's still lots of room for improvement as this was my first time there with the FD.

NoOne

I have no idea on times. I've been out there with my Camaro, Miata, and the RX7.

I was by far fastest in the Camaro, not so much driving skill, the car was just very point and shoot, and it defined slow in, fast out. I think I was running 1:31-1:32 in the Camaro. The Miata sucked out there, too much power and not enough chassis or tire. I'm not even sure of my times but they really were crappy.

I would think I was very close to the Camaro times in the 7, mid 1:30's, and it was a cold morning outside too, I was really hoping to get a few hard laps in when it hit 65 in the afternoon but thats when I tossed the belt and was done for the day.

I have alot ot learn on braking with the Black's, I could brake alot later but with being undertired I'd hit the ABS too fast and could not drive the car hard as I wanted to into the corners, ended up overshooting, especially entering the bowl.

Another reason I think I was faster in the Camaro was the power seat and ride height. I could see alot more of the corners before I crested them in it, you sit so low in the Miata I never saw anything, the RX7 is better but still a very low position in comparison.

Since I run these events I don't have alot of time to talk to the more experienced drivers. Its kind of hectic from the start to finish. I have to find a driving school to goto where I can get some good learning time in without having to worry about the rest of the things going on.