Turbo2FC3S

iTrader: (1)

i've done a search on sway bars and found a lot of info on how having only ONE sway bar (either rear or front) will affect the car's handling. How will the car handle with both a rear and front sway bar? and which sway bars do you guys recommend for mountain driving?

sunshine

iTrader: (3)

The TII has both front an rear anti-sway bars. If you stiffen the front, you induce understeer. If you stiffen the rear, you induce oversteer. For most ppl who do not know how to properly suspension tune, you should buy matched sets. Racing Beat, Suspension Techniques, Eibach, are some of the more popular brands.

Black91n/a

sunshine is wrong! He is thinking backwards, stiffening the front with a larger bar increases the load on the front tires, increasing understeer(push), a bigger rear bar will increase oversteer (tail wagging).

have a look at this:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...cc_projsilvia/

It's not immediately applicable to us, but it's shows the basics of how to tune an adjustable suspension to make it work properly.

The only adjustable (front and rear) anti roll bars that I've found are whiteline.

RETed

Actually the symantics is not quite right.
The bar resists weight transfer.
If a bar increases load (on front), that's implying there's more weight transfer (on front).
So, bigger front bar resists weight transfer to front, therefore, weight stays in back - weight in back induces understeer.


-Ted

rynberg

WHAT?

An anti-roll bar has ZERO to do with weight transfer from the front to the rear. It "restricts weight transfer" from side to side because the loading must twist the bar before acting on the springs on each side. In effect, it acts to raise the spring rate in lateral loading on the car.

Making one end of the car stiffer, whether with springs, shock valving, or sway bar resistance, makes that end of the car slide first.

DamonB

Everything you ever wanted to know about sway bars

It's in the suspension and handling links sticky!

Sway bars do not change the amount of weight transfer as that is determined only by cg location compared to wheelbase and track width. Karts have completely solid suspensions and yet experience all of the differing weight transfers as a car with a sprung suspension. I could weld solid bars in place of the shocks on any car and that car would experience the same amounts of weight transfer as it did on springs.

Bars, springs and shocks have nothing to do with the amount of weight transfer a tire will experience.

RETed

Do I need to explicitly state that we're talking about cornering situations?
So you're telling me there is no such thing as weight transfer during cornering?
I didn't think I needed to state that the stabilizer bars do nothing while going straight...


-Ted

rynberg

Please explain how a sway bar has any effect on weight transfer from the FRONT to the REAR of the car.

Black91n/a

Unless you have some funky "sway bars" going from the front to the rear tires (I've never seen this or heard of it being done) then sway bars will not affect front to back weight transfer.

RETed

Maybe "weight transfer" is not the correct term.
How about the front to rear "balance" while cornering?


-Ted

DamonB

Actually that's been done before in the past on some racecars. After that people tried plumbing the hydraulic dampers between the front and rear together. Once the third spring was invented there wasn't much use in either (even though the third spring is undamped in the majority of cases).

rynberg

Well, of course sway bars affect handling balance, but they don't have anything to do with weight transfer front to rear....

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Perhaps ther is some confusion between traction bars, like you would find on a "drag car", and sway bars.

Or perhaps not

RETed

After thinking about this on a restless night...

How about this...

Cornering is a dynamic situation on which there are several factors that determine oversteer or understeer.
Most will assume "steady state cornering", which would eliminate a lot of these other variables, but I'm sure we all know this is not always the case.
Throttle lift-off, power oversteer, increasing / decreasing radius, etc. all will affect the steady state cornering, so this turns this whole scenario in a dynamic and changing environment.
Although it is not the sole responsibility of the stabilizer bars to dictate oversteer or understeer, there is some effect from them to inducing oversteer or understeer.

I agree, steady state cornering should not have anything to do with weight transfer front versus rear, but what about cornering that isn't?

You can argue about the stabilizer bars not being coupled, but if we look at the "big picture", the tire contact patch dictates traction of the vehicle, and they are all ultimately coupled with the vehicle's chassis.



-Ted

DamonB

^ you should run for public office