I need to get my FD re-aligned, the steering response seems way to quick for my tastes, very hard to control anyone who has specs and tracks their car and ishappy please post what your set up is

 

#'s Direct from M2 Performance

Front; Straight up with 1.5 - 1.8 degrees Neg. Camber
Rear : 1/16 Toe In with 1.0 - 1.2 degrees Neg. Camber

IM getting my car aligned today to those specs.
I just installed the M2 trailing arms & toe links

IM taking it to Fordahl Motorsports for the Alignment. They are a race specific shop & go as far as to add the driver's weight to the driver's seat & adjust your coil over ride height in the process.

 

I have;

Front:
0 Toe, -2 Camber, +4.5 Caster, 235-40-17 @ 36.5PSI

Rear:
1/16 Toe-Out, -1.5 Camber, 255-40-17 @ 32PSI

Car is stable, turns in quick & has very slight understeer.

Sled Driver,

Let me know what the M2 Arms & Links do for your handling bias. I am curious if they reduce oversteer or understeer.

 

TiteFD;

What are your Mazdaspeed coilovers set at?
Mine are set on 4 all around.

 

That's the first I have seen anyone run toe out on the rear. Autox or road course? Seems like that would be a real handful on tight corners.

 

It was my alignment guys suggestion.
I was concerned it would cause my car to over rotate.
However, I still have a slight understeer.
When I had Zero Rear Toe I had more understeer and slower turn it.
Most likely due to larger tires in back than in front.

 

I am running 245/45/16 on all four corners. Changed my alignment slightly this season; now running 1.5 degrees negative camber all the way around with 1/16" toe in front and rear. Last year I had 1.7 degrees negative with 1/16" toe in on front and 1.3 degrees negative with zero toe on rear.

Stock springs and bars with the Konis at front on full hard and the rear from full soft to half a turn depending on course. The front will turn in NOW whenever I want. You can rotate the rear easily with power but you have to be careful of trailing throttle oversteer. If you unload the rear to quickly on turn in it will come way out in a heartbeat.

At this point I don't think I will ever get the grip from the rear that I have in the front. A stiffer bar in the front should make the car more neutral, but don't have that yet. Hope to add a Tripoint front bar soon.

 

Ok, I must be handling stupid ... I thought toe out gives better steering response. And negative camber gets more tire tread to the ground for better grip (but wears the tire down faster .... yeah, yeah, yeah). Am I completely out-to-lunch?

Here's numbers from Pettit Racing's site:

FRONT TOE
Street = 1/16" in
Long Track = 1/16" in
Short Track = 0
Auto-x = 1/16" out

FRONT CAMBER (16" wheels)
Street = -1.2
Long Track = -1.5
Short Track = -1.8
Auto-x = -1.8

CASTER
+6.0 (everything)

REAR TOE
0 (everything)

REAR CAMBER (16" wheels)
Street = -1.1
Long Track = -1.3
Short Track = -1.5
Auto-x = -1.5

The website's has other camber settings for 17" & 18" wheels. Go to their FAQ page and click on the link for "What about handling?"
Tell me I'm not crazy?

 

Lunar7, my coilovers are set at 4 in the front and 3 in the rear, this makes the car more stable than having it the same stiffness all around. I got my car aligned at conversion techniques in oakland, I need to find the alignment settings and i'll post them tommorow. It's the thunderhill set up

 

No you're exactly right. Negative camber gets you more grip because as the car rolls and the tire sidewall deflects, you actually get the footprint flat on the ground; there is a definite sweet spot though. Toe out on the front will give more steering response, but can make braking hairy on fast tracks. I haven't got to that yet because I have plenty of grip in the front; handling is all about balancing the front and rear of the car.

Toe out on the rear will make the rear end swing out easier. Imagine the rear tires pointed out. As the car goes into a left turn for instance and weight transfers to the right side of the car, the right rear is loading up. Since is is also pointed out, it is trying to rotate the rear into the turn. If you are already loose in the rear this would be the worst thing to do, but then again if your problem is the front not pointing in this would help.

All of our setups will vary with tire size, shocks, springs, bars, driving style, etc. With my current setup rear toe out would put me in the weeds, but for a time when I ran street tires I had Lunar7's problem; couldn't make the front point into the turns as quickly as I liked. As always a change to one adjustment effects the others and you have to reoptimize everything. This is only the second alignment I have tried; it appears to be a step in the right direction for me, but I have only runit once. Have to wait a few more times.

 

I'm on 18's so

FRONT TOE
1/16" in

FRONT CAMBER
-0.5

REAR CAMBER
-.6

CASTER
+6.0 (everything)

REAR TOE
0

 

DamonB, thanks for the affirmation. Good to know that I haven't completely lost my marbles. What kind of braking issues did you find with a toe out setting on the fronts?

I'm debating going 1/16" toe out on the fronts and 1/16" toe in on the rears; -1.5 camber all around; +6.0 caster. I tend to roll better with understeer than oversteer. On auto-x courses, I tend to get frustrated if the car oversteers too much. I have GAB R's in now @ setting 4; which is like medium. I'm going to Koni yellows ... anyways, will this be a good setup for me, knowing how I like to approach turns (early brake, slight drift, and accelerate from apex out)?

 

with 285 30 18 at all corners, i am using
1.5 camber in the front with o toe and in the rear 0.8 and 1/16 toe in. caster is 6.0
also this is with 650 in/lb front and 500 in/lb rears
1R1

 

Toe out makes the steering pull a lot more under braking is my understanding. I have not tried it myself, but have heard many people mention that it can feel a little unstable for a daily driver (which mine is).

Everything I have heard says the GAB is a better shock thatn the Koni. Don't know why you would do this unless you are going to have the Koni converted to double adjustable and custom valved?

 

I am told that toe out on the front would make the front end "hunt" more under braking. I agree that it would but have not done it since my car is a daily driver. It pulls enough as it is with the camber.

Why would you go to the Konis unless you plan to have them made double adjustable and custom valved? I know many use the GAB R and it is supposed to be superior; it's just no longer available. If the GAB's are working by all means keep them.

 

For the daily driving experience, the GAB's are kinda harsh ... even on the softest setting. I've been jawing with the guys at MZM performance and they were surprised that I was running GAB R's on an FD. They said they normally see them on heavy cars like Supra's and 3000GT's ...

And, truth be told, I slid out in the FD and possibly bent the front strut. With them no longer being available, I was left with only a few plug-and-play choices. And since insurance is covering it, why not? You never know ... maybe it's not bent and I'll have an extra set of struts sitting around.

 

1R1,

Are you still running these settings? Comments on tire wear?

Cheers.
David

 

Another good thread.

 

I know Howard Coleman recommends -1.2 camber f/r, toe in 1/16 f/r, +6 caster, and zero rear thrust angle.

Do you think this is a good street/track/auto-x compromise between my street 235/40/18's & 275/30/19's (daily driven Toyo T-1s) and auto-x/track 245/45/16's (Toyo RA1s all around)? Running Tein s-tech springs and oem shocks.

I don't mind a LITTLE extra tire wear on the street for increased track/auto-x performance.

 

bump for my question

 

You might see a little extra wear on those wide 19s on the inside but you may not. Running 1.2 is actually fairly conservative as far as tread wear goes. I ran more than that on 16" stockers but am only running -1/-0.5 right now with the 18s. Next alignment will be more like Howards suggestions.

 

Ok, had the car aligned today so I can't say too much about performance or tire wear, but here's what I did...

Kind of developed a Coleman-Rynberg alignment setting (sounds "tech" doesn't it? Taking name dropping to another level!) where I interpolated from their own settings. This is for street use generally and intended for 18x10 wheels (285/30) all around.

-1.1F 1/16" toe in
6.6 caster

-.8R 0 toe

I should be able to make a founded statement on tire wear in September 05.

Cheers everyone, and thanks for the info guys.
David