street-friendly coilovers?
09-29-14, 12:47 PM
#1
street-friendly coilovers?
hello friends.
i'm considering selling my Stance GR+PRO coilovers and going with something a little "softer" for the street. the Stance coilovers came with my FD when i bought it (with 12k/12k springs) so i installed 10k springs on the rear and they performed quite well on the track with no issues (i'm not experienced enough to really tell a difference though, honestly).
the issue is i can't find anyone that can provide objective feedback on this topic. every "review" i find of coilovers is people replacing their stock suspension with some cheap coilovers and saying it feels great, like that means something. after reading Howard Coleman's thread (FD suspension setup sticky) again i'm wanting to go with a setup similar to his 8k/6k tein HA setup.
the Stances seem like they did just fine for my track events, but they feel too aggressive for the street. i want to go a slightly different direction and try a coilover that is valved a little less aggressively with some lower rate springs --8k/6k if possible. it seems like 10k/8k is as low as the pre-assembled coilovers will go. i'm also considering koni yellows with ground control coilovers (and 8k/6k springs). i've read that 8k/6k is about as soft as you can go for a dual-purpose FD without getting substantial nose-dive and beating up the fender liners at track events. because of this i'm interested in some of the 10k/8k coilovers, but i still like the koni/GC 8k/6k concept...
the main purpose for the car is a weekend cruiser and 3-4 track events per year on street tires (no slicks, but maybe some stickier street compound tires).
can anyone provide some input on this?
here are some coilovers i have come across, and they provide shock dynos (and they're "digressive," whatever that means). has anyone used these coilovers?
(ignore default picture on the website...)
93-03 FD RX-7 Coilover 500 Series - Fortune Auto Coilover Superstore
i'm considering selling my Stance GR+PRO coilovers and going with something a little "softer" for the street. the Stance coilovers came with my FD when i bought it (with 12k/12k springs) so i installed 10k springs on the rear and they performed quite well on the track with no issues (i'm not experienced enough to really tell a difference though, honestly).
the issue is i can't find anyone that can provide objective feedback on this topic. every "review" i find of coilovers is people replacing their stock suspension with some cheap coilovers and saying it feels great, like that means something. after reading Howard Coleman's thread (FD suspension setup sticky) again i'm wanting to go with a setup similar to his 8k/6k tein HA setup.
the Stances seem like they did just fine for my track events, but they feel too aggressive for the street. i want to go a slightly different direction and try a coilover that is valved a little less aggressively with some lower rate springs --8k/6k if possible. it seems like 10k/8k is as low as the pre-assembled coilovers will go. i'm also considering koni yellows with ground control coilovers (and 8k/6k springs). i've read that 8k/6k is about as soft as you can go for a dual-purpose FD without getting substantial nose-dive and beating up the fender liners at track events. because of this i'm interested in some of the 10k/8k coilovers, but i still like the koni/GC 8k/6k concept...
the main purpose for the car is a weekend cruiser and 3-4 track events per year on street tires (no slicks, but maybe some stickier street compound tires).
can anyone provide some input on this?
here are some coilovers i have come across, and they provide shock dynos (and they're "digressive," whatever that means). has anyone used these coilovers?
(ignore default picture on the website...)
93-03 FD RX-7 Coilover 500 Series - Fortune Auto Coilover Superstore
09-29-14, 01:52 PM
#2
Unfortunately too many people prioritize spring rates over the quality of the damping and valving. Yes, while 8k/6k spring rates will be softer, this would still translate to a poor ride on an inferior damper. I have been in cars with incredibly well built suspension running 14k spring rates that were smooth as butter. Don't let spring rates dictate your purchase, what is more important is finding a quality damper like Ohlins, Quantum, Aragosta etc.
Ask anyone who owns a pair of Ohlins, PCVs or DFVs, every owner will tell you how the ride is incredibly smooth and they come with 11k spring rates - front and rear.
Ask anyone who owns a pair of Ohlins, PCVs or DFVs, every owner will tell you how the ride is incredibly smooth and they come with 11k spring rates - front and rear.
09-29-14, 02:07 PM
#3
Unfortunately too many people prioritize spring rates over the quality of the damping and valving. Yes, while 8k/6k spring rates will be softer, this would still translate to a poor ride on an inferior damper. I have been in cars with incredibly well built suspension running 14k spring rates that were smooth as butter. Don't let spring rates dictate your purchase, what is more important is finding a quality damper like Ohlins, Quantum, Aragosta etc.
Ask anyone who owns a pair of Ohlins, PCVs or DFVs, every owner will tell you how the ride is incredibly smooth and they come with 11k spring rates - front and rear.
Ask anyone who owns a pair of Ohlins, PCVs or DFVs, every owner will tell you how the ride is incredibly smooth and they come with 11k spring rates - front and rear.
thanks for the response, purerx7.
another issue is that i'd like to keep the price around $1500 or less, so the medium/higher end coilovers are out of my price range. i have also heard from multiple sources that the ohlins FD 11k/11k kit is very street-friendly.
so any objective feedback on the $1100-$1500 coilover range would be most beneficial for me, i think.
09-29-14, 04:54 PM
#4
Fortune will build a set of custom valved coilovers for you. I have a set of their upgraded 510s on the way for my car now. Even their 510 line is $1640 shipped. The 500 line is close to the bottom of your budget.
You can give them a call or drop them an email, they are pretty helpful. They have an information sheet on their site you can fill out and they will recommend some spring rates for you. Don't be scared by the spring rate itself. It is all in how that rate is matched to the shock valving.
Aside from them, BC coilovers are very good on the lower end of your price range. They are less agressive than Stance, and are good daily driver/occasional track coilovers.
You can give them a call or drop them an email, they are pretty helpful. They have an information sheet on their site you can fill out and they will recommend some spring rates for you. Don't be scared by the spring rate itself. It is all in how that rate is matched to the shock valving.
Aside from them, BC coilovers are very good on the lower end of your price range. They are less agressive than Stance, and are good daily driver/occasional track coilovers.
09-30-14, 12:38 AM
#5
Unfortunately too many people prioritize spring rates over the quality of the damping and valving. Yes, while 8k/6k spring rates will be softer, this would still translate to a poor ride on an inferior damper. I have been in cars with incredibly well built suspension running 14k spring rates that were smooth as butter. Don't let spring rates dictate your purchase, what is more important is finding a quality damper like Ohlins, Quantum, Aragosta etc.
Ask anyone who owns a pair of Ohlins, PCVs or DFVs, every owner will tell you how the ride is incredibly smooth and they come with 11k spring rates - front and rear.
Ask anyone who owns a pair of Ohlins, PCVs or DFVs, every owner will tell you how the ride is incredibly smooth and they come with 11k spring rates - front and rear.
My only problem is I need more height for some driveways, but I fitted them because I wanted to experience them before I sold them. I'm 100% sure a weekend car would be happy with them and I'm going to use them for daily duties until they sell.
09-30-14, 11:18 AM
#6
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a couple of years ago we had 3 FC's running 3 different suspension setups, and the ride quality did not correlate to spring rate, it correlates to shock valving.
we can explain why this is. there are two valves in a shock, there is a high (shock piston) speed valve and a low speed valve. the low speed valve is where the handling occurs, body movement is slower than a bump.
with most shocks we tune for handling, so we tune the low speed valve, and then the high speed just ends up where it ends up.
when we get better quality dampers we can tune both valves more optimally, and then you can have an excellent ride and excellent handling.
my example is a low mileage 87 GXL, vs my friends 89 GTUs. the 87 was stock, and the GTUs, was running 400/250 springs and Koni's. the GTUs handled better, but it also rode better.
we can explain why this is. there are two valves in a shock, there is a high (shock piston) speed valve and a low speed valve. the low speed valve is where the handling occurs, body movement is slower than a bump.
with most shocks we tune for handling, so we tune the low speed valve, and then the high speed just ends up where it ends up.
when we get better quality dampers we can tune both valves more optimally, and then you can have an excellent ride and excellent handling.
my example is a low mileage 87 GXL, vs my friends 89 GTUs. the 87 was stock, and the GTUs, was running 400/250 springs and Koni's. the GTUs handled better, but it also rode better.
09-30-14, 06:33 PM
#7
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I'm running the basic set of Fortune Auto's coilovers and love them. I have 11/9k upgraded swift springs. I have tested out the settings and tbh all of them are nice, even the stiff setting is bearable. Not many people bring them up, but from research on several other car forums I heard they rode better on the rode compared to the Stance's, also they have been used on the track quite a bit also. I thought another cool thing with Fortune Auto was they offer sponsorship if you attend events and place on the podium, get money towards their higher line of coilovers.
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10-01-14, 11:47 AM
#10
is there any easy way to purchase these all from one place and/or pre-assembled?
i'm also thinking that the best way to do this is to use a new RUBBER top mount, koni yellows, and GC springs/sleeves in 450/350lb.
10-01-14, 11:52 AM
#11
Have you looked into Zeal?
EndlessUSA
I couldn't be happier with mine. I use my FD for 90% street and 10% trackdays.
I tried the Koni Yellow/RSR downspring route. Did you know a new set of rubber OEM tophats is 600+ bucks?
EndlessUSA
I couldn't be happier with mine. I use my FD for 90% street and 10% trackdays.
I tried the Koni Yellow/RSR downspring route. Did you know a new set of rubber OEM tophats is 600+ bucks?
10-02-14, 02:54 PM
#15
I have the RSR down springs and Gab adjustable shocks I believe it is.
How would these compare with the koni's and the GC?
I spent a few years driving/racing on stock springs with the GAB SuperR adjustable shocks.
The GAB shocks ride very rough! Too much damping trying to make up for short/ weak lowering springs or really soft stock springs.
When I switched to 11K/11K Ohlins my friend remarked it now rode like his 5 series BMW- very smooth on Ohlins' recommended (low) settings.
Konis on the other hand are valved soft out of the box and revalvable to work with higher spring rates.
How would these compare with the koni's and the GC?
I spent a few years driving/racing on stock springs with the GAB SuperR adjustable shocks.
The GAB shocks ride very rough! Too much damping trying to make up for short/ weak lowering springs or really soft stock springs.
When I switched to 11K/11K Ohlins my friend remarked it now rode like his 5 series BMW- very smooth on Ohlins' recommended (low) settings.
Konis on the other hand are valved soft out of the box and revalvable to work with higher spring rates.
10-03-14, 09:03 AM
#17
They were not that expensive when I bought them from Ray a few years ago. Check in with him first. They aren't $20 cheap but shouldn't be $600. That said, the Zeals are a good shock and coilover package also. Check with Rishie at AutoRND for those.
10-03-14, 09:08 AM
#18
I went with off the shelf Konis and a set of Tein H Tech springs which are 400f /300r and new upper shock mounts and spring pads. I have some posts on those if you want to search for them.
I also went back to stock style bushings (from poly) with the Mazda Comp bushings.
10-04-14, 03:17 PM
#19
I wouldn't be so quick to blame spring rate for the ride, it's really more about damping and control of the movement. I've run 400/500 Konis, 600/500 GABs, 700/600 JRZs, and 14/14 (784) JRZs. I hated the Konis. I'll take my 14/14 JRZ over those any day.
I've found that setting the JRZs "full soft" isn't necessarily the best ride... what happens is that the springs tend to launch you off bumps or hit you in the back because they aren't controlled. Good call (above) on using stock bushings too. I went back from poly. Tires (both aspect ration and brand) have a huge influence as well. Get something with a softer, taller sidewall for the street.
I've found that setting the JRZs "full soft" isn't necessarily the best ride... what happens is that the springs tend to launch you off bumps or hit you in the back because they aren't controlled. Good call (above) on using stock bushings too. I went back from poly. Tires (both aspect ration and brand) have a huge influence as well. Get something with a softer, taller sidewall for the street.
10-07-14, 02:40 AM
#20
Senior Member
17" on a non-runflat to me was just like going from a 10-12k to 8k spring from 18's.
The Ohlins are REALLY hard to beat but a bit expensive. I have JIC FLT-A2 and they aren't too bad on 17's. Not sure of the spring rate they came with though.
I too am getting to the old fart feelings and may swap the springs to something a little softer. I'll wait to see that the ring and spa say next summer. :-)
The Ohlins are REALLY hard to beat but a bit expensive. I have JIC FLT-A2 and they aren't too bad on 17's. Not sure of the spring rate they came with though.
I too am getting to the old fart feelings and may swap the springs to something a little softer. I'll wait to see that the ring and spa say next summer. :-)
10-09-14, 10:10 PM
#22
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I have driven and ridden in a lot of FD's since I tune people's cars here. Most of the shocks/springs combo's are good for lower speeds. I notice, especially with mine, that when the speeds are above 100mph that this is when the shocks/springs are tested. what happens with mine is they tend to jump over bigger bumps, they don't soak it up. same with other tein coilovers I have been in.
What I want from a suspension is they do well at low speeds, middle speeds and can soak up high speed bumps without leaving the ground. Its not the car is bouncing up and down, its that the car wants to literally jump off the bumps. perhaps this is not avoidable, but I am willing to bet it is. I know my suspension the dampening and compression are tied together. it's like I want a lot less compression but stiff dampening.
What I want from a suspension is they do well at low speeds, middle speeds and can soak up high speed bumps without leaving the ground. Its not the car is bouncing up and down, its that the car wants to literally jump off the bumps. perhaps this is not avoidable, but I am willing to bet it is. I know my suspension the dampening and compression are tied together. it's like I want a lot less compression but stiff dampening.
10-10-14, 12:44 PM
#23
The body of the car moving up over a high speed bump instead of just the wheel/tire as you describe is a lack of very high speed damping blow off.
This very high speed blow off valving is what Ohlins touts as their Dual Force Valve (DFV).
Ohlins DFV works in compression and also in rebound allowing the wheel/tire to fall into a dip in the road as well.
I hate driving my stock Mazda3 and RX-8 now as though the ride is normally soft like my FD on Ohlins, you can feel the tires leaving the ground over sudden bumps and dips and I now recognize that feeling from driving with a lack of it on the Ohlins.
I just roll my eyes at suspension not doing its job now that I have been spoiled by Ohlins.
That $1,200 RX-8 is going to get Ohlins someday as it is on the short list of cars they make off the shelf suspension for.
This very high speed blow off valving is what Ohlins touts as their Dual Force Valve (DFV).
Ohlins DFV works in compression and also in rebound allowing the wheel/tire to fall into a dip in the road as well.
I hate driving my stock Mazda3 and RX-8 now as though the ride is normally soft like my FD on Ohlins, you can feel the tires leaving the ground over sudden bumps and dips and I now recognize that feeling from driving with a lack of it on the Ohlins.
I just roll my eyes at suspension not doing its job now that I have been spoiled by Ohlins.
That $1,200 RX-8 is going to get Ohlins someday as it is on the short list of cars they make off the shelf suspension for.
10-10-14, 04:44 PM
#24
I went with off the shelf Konis and a set of Tein H Tech springs which are 400f /300r and new upper shock mounts and spring pads. I have some posts on those if you want to search for them.
I also went back to stock style bushings (from poly) with the Mazda Comp bushings.
I also went back to stock style bushings (from poly) with the Mazda Comp bushings.
David
10-10-14, 06:17 PM
#25
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The body of the car moving up over a high speed bump instead of just the wheel/tire as you describe is a lack of very high speed damping blow off.
This very high speed blow off valving is what Ohlins touts as their Dual Force Valve (DFV).
Ohlins DFV works in compression and also in rebound allowing the wheel/tire to fall into a dip in the road as well.
I hate driving my stock Mazda3 and RX-8 now as though the ride is normally soft like my FD on Ohlins, you can feel the tires leaving the ground over sudden bumps and dips and I now recognize that feeling from driving with a lack of it on the Ohlins.
I just roll my eyes at suspension not doing its job now that I have been spoiled by Ohlins.
That $1,200 RX-8 is going to get Ohlins someday as it is on the short list of cars they make off the shelf suspension for.
This very high speed blow off valving is what Ohlins touts as their Dual Force Valve (DFV).
Ohlins DFV works in compression and also in rebound allowing the wheel/tire to fall into a dip in the road as well.
I hate driving my stock Mazda3 and RX-8 now as though the ride is normally soft like my FD on Ohlins, you can feel the tires leaving the ground over sudden bumps and dips and I now recognize that feeling from driving with a lack of it on the Ohlins.
I just roll my eyes at suspension not doing its job now that I have been spoiled by Ohlins.
That $1,200 RX-8 is going to get Ohlins someday as it is on the short list of cars they make off the shelf suspension for.