lov-2-rev

iTrader: (87)

Hay all,

I posted this question in the 2nd gen section and received no feedback. Hopfully someone here can lend some advice. I am in the middle of rebuilding the suspension for my FC and have run into a roadblock.
i am replacing all of the bushings and mounts with a mix of polyurethane and delrin (UHMW) pieces I have in storage. The only bushings I don't have are the rear hub-to-trailing arm mounts.
To illustrate, here are a few pics of the disasembled subframe and trailing arms.






The upper mount in the second pic is what I am looking to upgrade. They are not available through Energy Sus. or other name brand manufacturers. Nor are they available from smaller places like MMR. From what I have read, Mazdaspeed used to offer them but I can't find any current info on availibility. OEM rubber units can be purchased from Mazdatrix but I was leaving that as a last resort. I was also planning on replacing the lower (left) pillow ball mounts which are available through Mazdatrix.

I guess my question is;
Is it advisable to upgrade these with poly or delrin (depending on availibility) while replacing every other bushing or should I stay with the OEM rubber bushings? If I should upgrade, where can I get them from?

Thanks,

Josh18_2k

iTrader: (3)

fyi- poly/delrin is a no no on the trailing arm - subframe mounts. the need some flexibility. you either have to use oem mounts (new ones) or spherical bearings (theyre like 200 i think)

lov-2-rev

iTrader: (87)

Really?
I've never had any issues with Energy Suspension's outer trailing arm bushings in the past. I was under the impression they only caused issues when making significant camber adjustments (which I don't plan on).

*For clarification* What I ment to say was "spindle" instead of "hub". (mental fog today, sorry.)
I'm guessing the combination of a pillowball and a DTSS eliminator would make an OEM upper bushing the week link at the spindle connection.
What do you guys think?

drftwerks

iTrader: (1)

i have full mmr bushing + mount kit which inc

front and rear control arm bushings, DTSS Eliminators, and rear subframe mounts

and

engine mounts, transmission mounts, and differential mounts listed above.

for 325 shipped

paypal = drift_trd_ae86@hotmail.com

90FC

I think the people that were having issues, were the ones adjusting "most" of there camber with the control arm links. If you adjust camber with the center sub frame link and use the control arm links for evening camber out you should be fine.

I left my stock ones in. They were in good shape, and between the dtss eliminator and the pillow ball it makes the aluminum hub pretty much solid (no movement at all).

87Rx189

I would switch them out for poly bushings. I'm not a big fan of rubber.

lov-2-rev

iTrader: (87)

Shameless plug............


Thanks, but I have all of those bushings and mounts already.

So you suggest using the individual camber links in conjunction with an adjustible center link? Interesting........ I didn't consider that. I'm using MMR diff and subframe bushings, and thought they would be too stiff for a center link.

My stock upper hub bushings are pretty tired so they will need to be replaced anyway. If OEM ends up being my only choice, I'll have to go with it.
I'd rather not though.

90FC

Actually you can't use the center link with solid subframe bushings. I was just trying to say that you can run poly in control arm bushings (without solid subframe and diff bushings) if you are using a stock or aftermarket center subframe link to adjust camber.

If you have the solid subframe bushings, solid diff bushings, and control arm camber links. Just get the AWR spherical bearings and you will be good to go.

lov-2-rev

iTrader: (87)

Right. Gotcha.

Now, I just need to find these damn upper spindle bushings.

Josh18_2k

iTrader: (3)

aah dammit i didnt think of that! i have soloid subframe bushings on my floor right now..
i use a center bar in combination with the indiv links. center bar alone will result in uneven camber. not a big deal if its just a dd, but i race.

lov-2-rev

iTrader: (87)

FYI- I just discovered that MMR now makes the spherical T-arm bearings also. And at nearly half the price of AWR.

lov-2-rev

iTrader: (87)

I'm still trying to find out if anyone makes aftermarket upper spindle bushings.

Black91n/a

I like the fact that they don't require welding, but I'd be concerned about the fact that they're using a 2011-T3 aluminum, so there could well be issues with them wearing and getting sloppy over time. To me the lower spec aluminum says that they're making it to a cost, which makes me concerned that they'd use lower quality spherical bearings, which too will loosen up and get sloppy over time. All spherical bearings will do that no matter what, but cheaper ones will wear out faster.

I'd much rather see it made out of steel or 6061-T6 aluminum since there's a lot of load going into there.

lov-2-rev

iTrader: (87)

^Very good point.

All things taken into account, I'm starting to shy away from the idea of using spherical bearing.
This car is going to be a street driven weekend thrill ride. I'd rather deal with a little bushing bind (if any) and have a slightly more forgiving ride, then to deal with replacing noisy, worn bearing.
I hate suspension work and only want to do this once if I can help it.

Black91n/a

Yea, those rear arms are a real BIATCH to get to. I had to replace those toe adjusting cam bolts, so that's not even the full job and it was a pain in the *** and a half. I wouldn't want to be doing that more than once.

If you're going to change the bushings to something stiffer, stick with polyeurethane and keep the individual camber adjuster adjustments to an absolute minimum and you should be ok. Delrin and the like is essentially solid. Think plastic cutting board and you'll get the picture.

lov-2-rev

iTrader: (87)

Tell me about it! I finally got time to put all the suspention pieces on the hydraulic press monday night. It's the ONLY way to do a bushing job without loosing your mind (and possibly some knuckles). If the bushings ever had to be redone, I'd have to drop the entire suspention again. Yay, fun!

My bushing list consists of a Energy Sus. black poly master kit. That esentially does all the suspension pivot points.
Diff/subframe mounts and DTSS eliminators are delrin.
My philosophy is anything that moves gets urethane. Everything else can be rigid.

Black91n/a

When you use the single camber rod to adjust camber, it's twisting the subframe bushings. If you replace the subframe mounts with delrin, you'll have a hard time adjusting camber that way, others have tried and failed.

Josh18_2k

iTrader: (3)

just stick with stock mounts in the front of the trailing arms, and use individual adjusters. delrin/poly everywhere else.
those mounts dont deflect on lateral load anyway, only on braking/acceleration. shouldnt be an issue unless you have a decent amount of power and good traction.

lov-2-rev

iTrader: (87)

*More Clarification*
I am NOT using an adjustible center link bar with the above mentioned mounts/bushings. Only the AWR individual camber adjusters for minor changes.
Traction will be pretty good, but not "track sticky". Power should be in the area of 325 RWHp.

Can no one point me in the direction of the rear spindle bushings I'm after????

Josh18_2k

iTrader: (3)

if you dont see them on MMR, AWR, mazdatrix, or racing beats website, and they arent in teh Energy kit.. they probably dont exist. not a huge amount of aftermarket support for these cars. if its that important to you, you could just have a set made at a local machine shop. a billet aluminum piece pressed into a torched spindle would be 100% solid.

Black91n/a

Changing to poly, delrin or what not would be a downgrade. Those are spherical bearings from the factory, just replace them with stock ones. That said, when you've got DTSS eliminators, there's no reason why they can't be made of aluminum or some such material.

lov-2-rev

iTrader: (87)

^ I am having a hell of a time getting my point across.



The spherical bearings (AKA- pillow ball mounts) are remaining as is (not being changed). The DTSS bushings are being upgraded to delrin.
The third spindle mount (upper most mounting point, made of rubber) is what I am looking to upgrade.
Mazdaspeed had these available in delrin at one time, but I can no longer find info on them. (See Rx-Heven's build and partout threads)

The only reason for Mazda to make the upper bushings out of rubber was to allow for compliance while the DTSS flexed under lateral G's. Without the DTSS flexing now, there is no reason for the upper bushings to have that compliance. It now becomes the soft spot in the spindle-to-trailing arm connection. Theoretically allowing minor camber shifts during cornering. Don't get me wrong, a little "give" is O.K. for slight vibration deadening (i.e.-poly or delrin).


I think Josh might be on to something. Just have a local machine shop make a pair. Does anyone know where I might find slugs of delrin for sale?

Josh18_2k

iTrader: (3)

he was reffering to these bushings ->


which i didnt realize were sperical from teh factory! thats really good news. well, assuming they are cheaper than AWR bearings. anyone know where to find them? but yah- dont use delrin here if you are using indiv adjusters. and dont use solid subframe mounts if you use center adjuster. its one combination or the other.

and yes, the upper mount on the spindle is not made by anyone. you're gonna have to get one made yourself.

Black91n/a

Those ones at outer pivot point at the front of the control arm, boxed in pink are normal rubber bushings. The "dogbone" links inboard from that, circled in black, are also rubber bushings. See above, I was referring to the one at the top where the hub attaches. I find it strange that they'd use spherical for the bottom, but rubber on top. Surely 2 sphericals would have worked too.

lov-2-rev

iTrader: (87)

Agreed, but none the less, they are sleaved rubber bushings on top. Believe me, they are in my garbage can.