Nice review on Car and Driver of the top 11 tires...
11-11-05, 09:24 PM
#1
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
Nice review on Car and Driver of the top 11 tires...
on the market.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....ticle_id=10252
the yoks look pretty impressive.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....ticle_id=10252
the yoks look pretty impressive.
11-13-05, 11:15 AM
#5
Mad Man
Can't find the raw data, but notice they stsate they have not done a tire test since '89, also GRM does HP tire tests every year, the goodyear has never even been in the running. If you want a compromise tire, figure out what you want, and get a tire that does that well. If you want a great performing (perhaps top two) tire with great wet traction I'd throw out these guys first tire test by a couple local AXers, and go with GRM, and/or mine of the Kumho MX. The Hankook may be another good choice. The RT615 would win in the dry, followed by the Advan. The MX would be third IMHO, but it wins in the wet, and will far outlast either. Those would be my top three for performance. Incorporating a known baseless number like tread wear rating only shows how little these guys understand about tires. Carl
11-13-05, 11:43 AM
#6
I can say from experience that MXs are grippier then T1-Ss on dry tarmac. I've never tried T1-Rs but I can't imagine Toyo taking a step back.
IMO, It's hard to believe a magazine about road tests, because the companies who pay them the most for advertisement are usually the winners of their tests.
This DEFINATELY happens in car magazines when they compare cars, so why not tires too?
[/conspiracy theory]
IMO, It's hard to believe a magazine about road tests, because the companies who pay them the most for advertisement are usually the winners of their tests.
This DEFINATELY happens in car magazines when they compare cars, so why not tires too?
[/conspiracy theory]
11-13-05, 11:45 AM
#7
195/50-15 Toyo T1-Rs for 60 bucks apiece:
http://ec-securehost.com/OnlineTires...OXES_T1-R.html
http://ec-securehost.com/OnlineTires...OXES_T1-R.html
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11-13-05, 02:10 PM
#8
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I think the way they conducted the review results is not necessarly what I'd consider optimal, but on the same token it has Tire Rack data in it (tire rack helped, provided the course, tires and cars) and experienced tire test drivers. The raw data is in the magazine. For instance in the dry the BFG T/A KDs put in an autoX time of 29.76s whereas the Toyo T1Rs did 30.67s and the Kuhmo MXs did 30.28s.
As for the above conspiracy theory, I think it's just that. Looking at the back cover of that issue of C&D there is a Hyundai ad. In the front the first car ads are from Toyota and Chrysler. How often do any of those manufacturers win the reviews in the magazine?
In the two comparisons in the magazine a Chrysler comes in last (viper vs. Z06), while Toyota and Hyundai come in last and second last places respectively in the mid-sized sedan comparison. I do think they're biased towards Honda, but not because they are getting money from Honda, but beacuse they place higher value in certain attributes that Hondas tend to deliver on. In other words Honda delivers on things they consider important that others might disagree with.
As for the above conspiracy theory, I think it's just that. Looking at the back cover of that issue of C&D there is a Hyundai ad. In the front the first car ads are from Toyota and Chrysler. How often do any of those manufacturers win the reviews in the magazine?
In the two comparisons in the magazine a Chrysler comes in last (viper vs. Z06), while Toyota and Hyundai come in last and second last places respectively in the mid-sized sedan comparison. I do think they're biased towards Honda, but not because they are getting money from Honda, but beacuse they place higher value in certain attributes that Hondas tend to deliver on. In other words Honda delivers on things they consider important that others might disagree with.
Last edited by Snrub; 11-13-05 at 02:16 PM.
11-13-05, 05:32 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by Natey
IMO, It's hard to believe a magazine about road tests, because the companies who pay them the most for advertisement are usually the winners of their tests.
This DEFINATELY happens in car magazines when they compare cars, so why not tires too?
[/conspiracy theory]
This DEFINATELY happens in car magazines when they compare cars, so why not tires too?
[/conspiracy theory]
Actually, it is not conspiracy theory at all. I know a few people in the magazine business including someone on this forum that used to work for Road & Track. The info you read is biased. Advertising is the main source of revenue for magazine publishers. They aren't gonna bite the hand that feeds.
11-13-05, 07:00 PM
#11
Originally Posted by 20B 3rd Gen
I noticed they did use the BFG KDW tires, which is BFG's high performance wet/dry tire
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=4
11-13-05, 08:18 PM
#12
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I normally really respect Car and Driver....but any test of PERFORMANCE tires that places a Continental tire in 2nd and the Kumho MX and BFG KD in 11th and 10th must be fatally flawed.
In addition, while I have no experience with the Goodyear tire in question, over the years I have consistently found Goodyear tires to be overpriced and underperforming.
Another aspect I was disappointed in was the lack of any kind of reporting on the wear experienced by the tires. This is important for those of us who are still using street tires at the track/auto-x...
All in all, pretty disappointing. If the MX or KD was available in the sizes I want to run, I would go with those. Since they're not, I'm thinking of trying the new Dunlop Maxx or breaking the wallet and going with the Yoko Advans...
In addition, while I have no experience with the Goodyear tire in question, over the years I have consistently found Goodyear tires to be overpriced and underperforming.
Another aspect I was disappointed in was the lack of any kind of reporting on the wear experienced by the tires. This is important for those of us who are still using street tires at the track/auto-x...
All in all, pretty disappointing. If the MX or KD was available in the sizes I want to run, I would go with those. Since they're not, I'm thinking of trying the new Dunlop Maxx or breaking the wallet and going with the Yoko Advans...
11-14-05, 02:40 AM
#14
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Originally Posted by 7racer
they mention the test numbers which isn't online.....does anyone know if they posted the actual data in the magazine issue?
11-14-05, 08:55 AM
#15
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by rynberg
I normally really respect Car and Driver....but any test of PERFORMANCE tires that places a Continental tire in 2nd and the Kumho MX and BFG KD in 11th and 10th must be fatally flawed.
Originally Posted by rynberg
In addition, while I have no experience with the Goodyear tire in question, over the years I have consistently found Goodyear tires to be overpriced and underperforming.
11-17-05, 02:29 PM
#17
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Not that I necessarly agree with the overall rankings, but in fairness the Continental had a 30.30 (dry) / 32.51 (wet) time while the Kuhmo had a 30.28 (dry) / 35.10 (wet) time and the BFGs 29.76 (dry) / 35.16 (wet). Those are hard numbers and the results are based on the numbers they considered valuable. The Continentals would appear to be similar to the Kuhmos in the dry, worse than the BFGs in the dry, but vastly supierior to both in the wet.
Last edited by Snrub; 11-17-05 at 02:32 PM.
11-17-05, 05:09 PM
#18
My problem with it is that the BFGoodrich KD is a DRY tire. (Key feature Dry) Of course it's going to not be designed to function well in the rain. If they were going to have a wet test, why didn't they go with the KDW? I have a set and absolutely love them.
I'm with everyone else, if I'm looking for a performance tire, I'm going to go with the MX, KD, or any of the other fast dry tires. (too bad they don't make the MX or KDs in my size.)
To bad the Yokes weren't out when I bought mine...
I'm with everyone else, if I'm looking for a performance tire, I'm going to go with the MX, KD, or any of the other fast dry tires. (too bad they don't make the MX or KDs in my size.)
To bad the Yokes weren't out when I bought mine...
Last edited by poss; 11-17-05 at 05:15 PM.
11-18-05, 01:42 PM
#19
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Well, I can say that after having experience with 6 of the tires they tested - I agree with their call that the Goodyears are top notch. I have them on my car in 225/45 and 275/40 and can tell you they perform above average in the dry, are unbelievable in the wet and after 12,000 miles they wear even and appear to have another 20,000 miles left.
If you have the chance to drive a car with the GS-D3s, do it. You'll be surprised at just how well these tires stick no matter what the climate.
If you have the chance to drive a car with the GS-D3s, do it. You'll be surprised at just how well these tires stick no matter what the climate.
11-18-05, 07:39 PM
#20
Originally Posted by DamonB
Agreed again. Goodyears are quite often merely ok in performance and cost much more money to boot! They are the Bose of the tire market
Bose is the most overrated company known to man...Their speakers arent terrible, just theres so many other options, often for less $$$
11-24-05, 09:36 AM
#23
I am very surprised about this test. I have Contisport 2 and older toyo t1s. I wanted to buy the r series toyo and heard great things about it. Conti sports sucked, dry was ok but wet, wow! horrible. But they rated 2nd place?? I just can't believe it!
I know someone with goodyear f1s... But i've never acturally driven it to see if its any better.
I know someone with goodyear f1s... But i've never acturally driven it to see if its any better.
11-26-05, 11:03 AM
#24
Originally Posted by Rx-7Addict
Bose is the most overrated company known to man...Their speakers arent terrible, just theres so many other options, often for less $$$
agreed, I design/ install/ integrate custom home theatres for a living and Bose is considered a joke in my industry. Went to CEDIA 05 to look at some new products and get some updated training. I heard so many cracks on Bose, over the loudspeaker, that it's not even funny. I will give them credit on their new wave radio though....