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His suspension settings were pretty money for track days so I guess I gotta ping @Howard Coleman to see if changing caster will affect handling adversely from his suggestions.
It will improve handling and self steering, but make the steering heavier.
Details on clearance, rubbing, fender modifications, suspension etc?
You managed to fit 285s under stock fenders?
@Valkyrie Front fenders are rolled and rears are stock.
I’m about a 1/2” lower than stock on Tein Flex coilovers.
Definitely not slammed, no issues with speed bumps and such.
Also, no rubbing with quick hits around town but I haven’t track the car either.
I love the meaty square look, extremely happy with this setup.
Steve
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Last edited by estevan62274; Sep 8, 2023 at 02:29 PM.
Need some guidance on tire sizing so as to not rub my fender liners. I used the TireRacks tool to put the following on my FD years ago:
Front: Enkei RPF1 18x8 +35mm with Michelin Pilot 4s 235/40/18
Rear: Enkei RPF1 18x9.5 +45mm with Michelin Pilot 4s 265/35/18
When I set up the car for the track days per @Howard Coleman tire/suspension setup thread, I had to set my ride height to 26" as 25" was definitely going to rub. Over the years, I've rubbed through fender liners, especially after track days. I'm tired of replacing Fender liners, so I'm trying to figure out what the right size tire is that keeps an 18" rim size, keeps my ride height, but does not eat liners.
Attached are some photos and yes, I know I need the triangle pieces under my bumper to keep the fender from flopping around. Even with those pieces, when turning the wheel, my current tires rub. I have a replacement set but I won't wanna put those on until I know my fenders are safe from harm.
I don't understand offsets or tire sizing to know what fits. I think the TireRack calculator assumed OEM suspension when giving me sizes vs my Ohlins setup because I doubt they would recommend anything that would rub. It's only an issue up front so I assume I could keep my rears as is even if change the front? Any help would be much appreciated.
If you've got spares ready to go, just cut this section out of the fender liner. I am pretty sure lots of people do this for better brake and oil cooling. This whole section of my liners are missing...
Otherwise, poke two holes in the liner where it is rubbing and use a zip tie or two to give yourself clearance.
For ***** and giggles, you could even try putting your rears on your front to see how they fit...
A 255/35 might actually fit better since its slightly shorter.
Front will require max negative camber when using stock unrolled fenders.
Rear will require around -2 to -2.5 deg negative camber with stock unrolled fender arches.
Its not an ideal or aggressive fitment width wise- just kind of the wrong offsets, wrong rear tire height and big stagger for no reason.
18x10 +50 front and rear (CCW stock fender FD spec) is a better 26 year old rule of thumb that has withstood the test of time to include Mazda Motorsports selling this size for the FD recently.
255/35-18 on 18x10 +50 will fit up front a little easier as tire shoulder is more inward from wheel offset.
The slight strech will provide direct steering feel while stock offset will eliminate trammeling and bumpsteer you get from lower offsets.
Front will require max negative camber when using stock unrolled fenders.
Rear will require around -2 to -2.5 deg negative camber with stock unrolled fender arches.
Its not an ideal or aggressive fitment width wise- just kind of the wrong offsets, wrong rear tire height and big stagger for no reason.
18x10 +50 front and rear (CCW stock fender FD spec) is a better 26 year old rule of thumb that has withstood the test of time to include Mazda Motorsports selling this size for the FD recently.
255/35-18 on 18x10 +50 will fit up front a little easier as tire shoulder is more inward from wheel offset.
The slight strech will provide direct steering feel while stock offset will eliminate trammeling and bumpsteer you get from lower offsets.
@BLUE TII - thank you for the reply, you seem you know things so I hope you don't mind if I ask a few follow-up questions:
I'd still like to go with a staggered set-up:
What about (F) 18 x 8.5 + 38 (235/40) - would this be safer and not require max negative camber ?
If the rears are 18 x 10 + 50, what size tire would you suggest ?
The 18x8.5 +38 with same 235/40-18 moves the tire in 4mm, so you could run ~0.75 degrees less camber.
So, probably need around -1.7 degrees front camber at 24.5" to top of fender arch ride height with a completely stock front fender.
Mind you, it wont look flush at all- but if you bring the tire out further to make it look better it will catch the fender lip when turning tight up hill and crease the fender.
18x10 +50 you can run 255/35-18 to 295/30-18. Plenty of pics of 7s with this size wheel to browse.
So, anyone heard of 2Forge?
They're "semi forged" wheels (not sure what this means) that are drilled and machined to spec. You can get 18x10s with up to a 50 mm offset. They're extremely cheap for custom offset rims.
No idea if they'll actually ship to Japan, or how much it would cost...
I am also interested in Forgestars, which have been mentioned, but I'm trying to figure out what the difference between the F14 and the F14 Drag is...
Are there any other relatively inexpensive 10 inch +50 options out there?
Or, given that I have hella camber in the front (-2.4 degrees), are there any more common offsets and sizes that I can use to run 275-295s in the front with pulled fenders?
I like the look! 27 pounds, though?
Sakebomb quotes 250 USD for shipping Titans. The total price is about three times what I want to spend, though, with the unfavorable exchange rate.
Would you recommend I went straight to 11s +45 like you are running? Your 305s on the front are almost comically wide. Haha.
I’m open to 17s, as well. I wonder how Konig Hypergram 17x10 +43 would fit with big tires.
Last edited by Valkyrie; Jul 10, 2024 at 01:21 AM.
The widest wheel and tire you can fit is going to be fastest through the corners and slowest on the straights (though braking will benifit).
This is not only a function of the rotational mass, but also the less the body of the car shrouds the wheels/tires the higher the aero drag.
On my FD its quite noticeable over 120mph.
You can add wickers (like a Z06) to guide air around the wheel/tire to help- but just putting it out for you to consider.
So, you have to decide what balance your car and the tracks you race on requires.
Whats fastest around Tsukuba isnt going to be whats fastest around Fuji...
Unfortunately, on the tire side 275/40-17 is too tall a tire for the front to turn without rubbing so you are left with 255/40-17.
255/40-17 is considerably narrower tire than a 295/30-18 or 315/30-18 (some 315 are 25.3" tall and will work up front, others are 25.5" and rub the body turning- same story with 265/35-18s BTW).
Again, theres been plenty of FDs on 255/40-17s faster than mine. But would they be even faster on wider 18s?
You can watch the evolution of the Feed Mahou FD at Gunsai and Tsukuba to see that yes, probably faster on the wider front tire.
If you go 17x10 with stock rear trailing link you have to run a bit less backspace/offset than 18 so it doesnt rub the link. Aftermarket trailing links can be spaced in on the front pivot to fix this.
The widest wheel and tire you can fit is going to be fastest through the corners and slowest on the straights (though braking will benifit).
This is not only a function of the rotational mass, but also the less the body of the car shrouds the wheels/tires the higher the aero drag.
On my FD its quite noticeable over 120mph.
You can add wickers (like a Z06) to guide air around the wheel/tire to help- but just putting it out for you to consider.
So, you have to decide what balance your car and the tracks you race on requires.
Whats fastest around Tsukuba isnt going to be whats fastest around Fuji...
Ebisu is more technical than Tsukuba, while Sugo is quite a bit faster than Tsukuba, but still quite technical.
I am more likely to go to Tsukuba again than ever going to Fuji.
The price difference for 295s is also like buying a whole extra 255.
I still have a lot of optimization I need to do on my 255s.
Braking performance is not where it should be. I think maybe my pads are too bity, which makes it harder to threshold brake (no ABS).
I use so little pedal pressure that I wonder if I have even crossed the knee point of the proportioning valve.
I will get something a bit less aggressive soon.
Of course, the track still somewhat damp and my AR1s are basically out of tread...
Actually, with my current setup (completely different coilovers, bushings, and alignment), the car feels quite neutral, so I don't feel quite as attached to a square setup as I was before.
275/40R17 was mentioned as having been a fairly popular size in the front for track days. Is the height thing an issue if you've fairly stiff coilovers (16 kg) and aren't running the car that low?
Last edited by Valkyrie; Jul 10, 2024 at 01:49 AM.
just found that Enkei makes a 10 +45 that aren’t absurdly expensive. Think this would be a suitable fit?
might just stick with 265s because stretch and poor.
You have to understand that if a tire catches a fender liner it can tear it off and jam the wheel locked- its a fast way to wreck.
If you remove the fender liners, the next spot is the headlight bucket sheet metal. If a tire catches that it can cut into it and lock the wheel or tear the tire.
If you run a lot of caster you may have to bend the rear lower front fender arch in so the tire clears.
You could make sure the shock bump stop bottoms before the tire can contact anything and/or put in steering limiters.
Its better to choose a tire as close to stock 24.8" (or shorter) as possible.
285/30-18 is another option for 18x10 +45 if you have trouble getting short enough 265/35-18.
You have to understand that if a tire catches a fender liner it can tear it off and jam the wheel locked- its a fast way to wreck.
If you remove the fender liners, the next spot is the headlight bucket sheet metal. If a tire catches that it can cut into it and lock the wheel or tear the tire.
If you run a lot of caster you may have to bend the rear lower front fender arch in so the tire clears.
You could make sure the shock bump stop bottoms before the tire can contact anything and/or put in steering limiters.
Its better to choose a tire as close to stock 24.8" (or shorter) as possible.
285/30-18 is another option for 18x10 +45 if you have trouble getting short enough 265/35-18.
Will probably just go with either 285 or 295, then.
i guess 285 might actually be slightly better if a 10” is all I can find, since you need to stretch it.
I have the 18x11 +45 TE-37s
That price is literally half of what they cost in the US.
The Enkei PF06 cost just a bit more here in US.
Both wheels are tanks at 29lbs each because they are VERY strong being JWL (JWL+R Spec2 for TE37) rated and engineered for todays 5,000lb "sports cars".
I have the 18x11 +45 TE-37s
That price is literally half of what they cost in the US.
The Enkei PF06 cost just a bit more here in US.
Both wheels are tanks at 29lbs each because they are VERY strong being JWL (JWL+R Spec2 for TE37) rated and engineered for todays 5,000lb "sports cars".
My 18x11 +45 Forgestar F14 are 26lbs.
I'm not even that big of a fan of TE-37s.
If they were the same price / weight / strength, I'd rather have RPF1s if they came in the right size.
I'll probably go with silver GTC01s in 10.5+45 once I've had enough whiskey to pull the trigger. Hope they fit. Hahaha.
At least wheels hold their value pretty well here. I've actually doubled my money selling wheels I bought used.
As for tires, Shibatire currently has a really good deal on 285/30s. They're apparently pretty good for being just over half the price of Nankang CR-Ss.
I'll be keeping onto my current wheels just in case I ever get a chance to register the car, since they don't poke out.
