View Poll Results: Would you prefer the caliper be located outward such that it...
results in ~0.090" of pad overhang but is closer to a bolt on operation
8
18.18%
uses the full pad but requires you dremel open the edges of the caliper slot
36
81.82%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll
Mandeville style 4 wheel big brakes for FC - feedback needed
05-06-08, 04:59 PM
#52
the implications matter
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the vote of confidence... I'm going to make this happen I just need to spend some more time on logistics.
I'm in my last quarter of grad school on the side of being an engineer so I don't have as much free time as I'd like to square this all away.
I'm in my last quarter of grad school on the side of being an engineer so I don't have as much free time as I'd like to square this all away.
05-23-08, 03:25 PM
#55
the implications matter
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Macz, thanks for the link... (and yeah, I'm a Payne... have laughed at your login a couple times now).
I'm starting by going through a couple friends who are lawyers, but yes I'm presently seeking legal counsel on the product liability waiver I wrote. I'm enclosing a draft copy to give folks an idea of just how seriously I'm being forced to take this. I really want to help the community but not at the risk of putting myself or my family at risk. This ended up being not only a waiver of the right to sue me but also an acceptance of liability if you hurt someone else.
There doesn't seem to be a good way to separate myself from an LLC given that I'm still using my phone, my internet, my tools, and my car as a test bed. Product liability insurance makes this project a non-starter. Basically, if I can't protect myself then this won't happen (but I'll post up a bunch of info if you wanted to do it yourself). If it can, I'm going to charge straight into production following my graduation from grad school in June.
Joel
PS If anyone here is a lawyer and wants to chime in I'd appreciate it. The worst case scenario goes that the kit gets sold secondhand (no more direct waiver). The second owner kills a little old lady. Everyone gets sued. The original buyer declares bankruptcy so despite the fact they accepted liability the little old lady's kids come after me. In no way am I expecting failures (as should be obvious from the fact I'm running this myself). However, I can't control how meticulously other folks make modifications so there's always some risk involved.
I'm starting by going through a couple friends who are lawyers, but yes I'm presently seeking legal counsel on the product liability waiver I wrote. I'm enclosing a draft copy to give folks an idea of just how seriously I'm being forced to take this. I really want to help the community but not at the risk of putting myself or my family at risk. This ended up being not only a waiver of the right to sue me but also an acceptance of liability if you hurt someone else.
There doesn't seem to be a good way to separate myself from an LLC given that I'm still using my phone, my internet, my tools, and my car as a test bed. Product liability insurance makes this project a non-starter. Basically, if I can't protect myself then this won't happen (but I'll post up a bunch of info if you wanted to do it yourself). If it can, I'm going to charge straight into production following my graduation from grad school in June.
Joel
PS If anyone here is a lawyer and wants to chime in I'd appreciate it. The worst case scenario goes that the kit gets sold secondhand (no more direct waiver). The second owner kills a little old lady. Everyone gets sued. The original buyer declares bankruptcy so despite the fact they accepted liability the little old lady's kids come after me. In no way am I expecting failures (as should be obvious from the fact I'm running this myself). However, I can't control how meticulously other folks make modifications so there's always some risk involved.
Last edited by frijolee; 05-23-08 at 03:35 PM.
05-30-08, 10:29 AM
#58
One of the big reasons for the delay is that I still need to set myself up as a limited liability company to cover myself in case someone wrecks while using these. It'll come with detailed instructions on what to do and not to do but these are brakes we're talking about here and I'm leaving some modifications in the hands of users so I'm trying to be careful.
It made sense from the end of the guy that was selling the kits it was drawn up by a lawyer and protected him in the event his bracket failed and life/property were lost.
06-06-08, 07:39 PM
#60
the implications matter
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Right now I'm on the fence in regards to moving forward. I have a week left in grad school (June 13th here we come!) so I've been forced to set it aside for a couple weeks here.
Liability turns out to be a huge pain in the *** if you're building this private party. It kills me because these brakes really have been everything I hoped for. I still need to get some track time on them and finish the formal fatigue analysis before I would sell them to someone else, but once that's done I'm not worried about these failing.
The legal counsel I've received is that a solid design doesn't stop me from getting sued, nor will any contract I put in place. It's unlikely that someone could win a suit against me but it's still a big expense and potential headache I don't necessarily want to deal with. I like the BIRA methodology as linked above but they undoubtedly have product liability insurance spread over a wide range of offerings.
So then I get to start weighting my desire to support the community vs. my own opportunity cost of what I want to spend time on. As I dig deeper it really looks like this might make more sense as a business offering by an entity that can spread the cost around. I'm not sure it makes sense as a stand-alone business venture...
If I can get my car sufficiently prepped the week after I graduate I might try to hit the track day at Willow Springs on June 21st. I'm definitely planning on Mazfest in mid July. Either way that might help me know more about just exactly how bad-*** a setup this is. Mostly I just really need to sit down and weigh the pros and cons and talk with the wife about liability and personal goals. I just simply haven't had time to do it. One solution might be to shop the concept around to corksport, autoRnD, or other folks with ties to the RX7 community and sell if I could sell the design on condition of indemnification.
I have a boss who likes to say "if it was easy anyone could do it" that's definitely turning out to be true in this case.
-Joel
Liability turns out to be a huge pain in the *** if you're building this private party. It kills me because these brakes really have been everything I hoped for. I still need to get some track time on them and finish the formal fatigue analysis before I would sell them to someone else, but once that's done I'm not worried about these failing.
The legal counsel I've received is that a solid design doesn't stop me from getting sued, nor will any contract I put in place. It's unlikely that someone could win a suit against me but it's still a big expense and potential headache I don't necessarily want to deal with. I like the BIRA methodology as linked above but they undoubtedly have product liability insurance spread over a wide range of offerings.
So then I get to start weighting my desire to support the community vs. my own opportunity cost of what I want to spend time on. As I dig deeper it really looks like this might make more sense as a business offering by an entity that can spread the cost around. I'm not sure it makes sense as a stand-alone business venture...
If I can get my car sufficiently prepped the week after I graduate I might try to hit the track day at Willow Springs on June 21st. I'm definitely planning on Mazfest in mid July. Either way that might help me know more about just exactly how bad-*** a setup this is. Mostly I just really need to sit down and weigh the pros and cons and talk with the wife about liability and personal goals. I just simply haven't had time to do it. One solution might be to shop the concept around to corksport, autoRnD, or other folks with ties to the RX7 community and sell if I could sell the design on condition of indemnification.
I have a boss who likes to say "if it was easy anyone could do it" that's definitely turning out to be true in this case.
-Joel
06-12-08, 08:28 PM
#61
Learned alot | Alot to go
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rotaryland, New Hampshire
Posts: 4,232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, amazing how hard it can be to actually sell something.
Well I along with probably a bunch of others will continue to follow this thread to atleast see the outcome
If it comes down to the liability is to much even though you feel the design is solid, you could always sell me a small box of scrap metal which just may randomly bolt up to a FC and its calipers.
Well I along with probably a bunch of others will continue to follow this thread to atleast see the outcome
If it comes down to the liability is to much even though you feel the design is solid, you could always sell me a small box of scrap metal which just may randomly bolt up to a FC and its calipers.
06-14-08, 07:44 AM
#65
DONT FEED THE NOOBS
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: land of slow hondas .... TULSA, OK
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i cant update my signature and its stuck that way.. besides im not in the habit of removing things to replace them with ...... muhahahahaha whenever i try to update my signature it says im over the character limit. besides i had to work for my hp im proud to stay 330 rwhp rotary muhahaha (until i go to the gas pump)
06-16-08, 05:58 PM
#66
Hey Joel, if these kits do go into production, how much would the package run?
If you do however, decide to produce them on a made-to-order basis, how much would the package run then? This kit really sounds like a great deal & upgrade for our 20+ year old cars. It's really unfortunate that liability is the only obstacle that keeps you from moving ahead.
If you do however, decide to produce them on a made-to-order basis, how much would the package run then? This kit really sounds like a great deal & upgrade for our 20+ year old cars. It's really unfortunate that liability is the only obstacle that keeps you from moving ahead.
06-18-08, 09:56 PM
#68
Lives on the Forum
Maybe you could team up with a vendor and do a joint venture type thing and let them take the liability in exchange for a percentage of the profit. It'd probably be a hell of a lot easier that way, and may end up making you more money than trying to go it alone.
