BicuspiD

I am about to order a set of V700 tires in 245/45-16 for my stock wheels, street/light track duty - I cant afford the 17's I want yet..

What is the difference between heat cycled, shaved and full tread? My brain wants me to think - "get a full tread- its cheaper and lasts longer, because theres FULL tread"

What is the benefit and downside of shaved or heatcycled tires?

TIA

SleepR1

Get full tread depth and heat cycle them on the street. Cheaper, and more utility that way

Takumi

Heat cycling would make the tire lasts longer and the grip is more consistent throughout the life of it.

As for shaving, if you're not concerned about every 1/10th of a sec like real wheel to wheel racing, don't worry about it.

Oh also, I highly recommend you NOT to use the Victoracer on the street. If they're not up to temp, they aren't any grippier than any decent street tires. And if you always run them cold, all you do is wearing them out faster.

suprfast

exactly what tukumi said. these are dangerous to drive around with on the street. to be honest when they are cold they arent any better then a good set of kuhmo 712's. also get them heatcycled. its best to get it done the right way.
kris

SleepR1

Disagree. V700s are really EXCELLENT street tires, and MUCH GRIPPIER than the sh*t 712s! I ran Kumhos on the street, track, autocross. Got 6000 miles out of them. On the flip side the V700s are not very competitive as R-compound tires go. Hoosiers and Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Comps are MUCH BETTER on track. No denying Kumhos are cheep tho!

DamonB

Where do you guys come off saying a V700 is less grippy than a street tire when cold? That is absolute hogwash. SpeedR1 is right on the money as usual.

Heat cycling is nice to have done so you can "plug and play" at the track, but you can do it yourself as well with them on the car. I had good results by overinflating mine about 8 pounds and then running 75 mph on the freeway for 30 minutes.

SleepR1, I have not yet seen first hand anybody running the Michelins or the Pirelli Corsas. What's your understanding compared to the Hoosier?

Takumi

Try running the Victoracers in a sub 50'F degree weather and you would see how it grips not any better than a set of S03 or PZeros..... Street tires mean something you can drive all year long, day and night, warm or cold - even slight snow. If you choose to use them as street tires, that's your choice but i still won't recommend it. But comparing R tires to 712s is silly IMO.

If you got 6000 miles out of them for street, track AND autocross, all I can think of is that you REALLY take it easy at your driving. I ran my set for 6 track days (~500 track miles), NO street mileage, and they were totally RIP by the end of the 6th day.

As for Kumhos being a competitive R tire, yes they ARE. Have you read the several R tire tests done by various publications like Grassroot Motorsport, C&D, Sport Compact car, etc? For the exact same car, driver, and road course, the Kumho Victoracer came behind the Hoosier, close enough to be considered competitive, and ahead of the Toyo RA1 and Yoko A032R. So for the limited R tire choices available in our market, I would say the Kumhos are very competitive (but yes the Hoosiers are still faster.... not denying that).

The Michelin Pilot Cup wasn't in the test (wasn't out yet). But for OVER 2 bills a tire, any budgeted road racer would sure think about it twice.

From the other thread, I realized that you know Ric C who runs frequently on Gingerman. You can hit him up and ask for his opinions (if you think mine is not trustworthy). Last time I checked, he was running the new Kumho Ecsta V700. Before that set, he was running Victoracer V700. If they're not competitive, I'm sure he would have looked for alternatives like Toyos or Yokos for slightly more.

DamonB

Have you done that? I have; quite a few times. In fact the last time was just two weeks ago at an autox with air temps in the 40's. The Victoracers certainly gripped better than any street tire. And for another point of argument, you checked the price on S03s or PZeros lately? The Cups don't seem so expensive after that, but the Victoracers certainly are more affordable.

Takumi

Yeah I have. My first and last event of last year was at Gingerman under a sub 50'F temperature. The first one was in April (CGI event) and the last one was in Oct (Speedtrial event). The first few laps of each session were like pace laps. I couldn't go fast at all. Even my torqueless car could break the tires loose easily. It was also funny to see those with Hoosiers sliding around even WORSE!

Street tires like S03 or Pzeros, even with moderate track use, can last 10K miles no problem. My old Bridgestones (RE010) lasted almost 20K miles with several track events too. I really have no idea how SleepR1 could get 6000 miles out of his V700 street + track + autox....... even after just ONE winter with those tires mounted on the car (read: tires not properly stored under room temp), the R tires are basically trash because of the hardened compound.

So, from my own experience, ~500 track miles vs ~10K street + track miles, I would say street tires are still a hellot cheaper.

suprfast

i still disagree with using them on the street. this is extremely dangerous. when cold these will not grip well. i will take my SO3's over them any day on the street. running these on the street and having a slight rain can also be detrimental to your CARS health. nothing against these tires as i do love them for there ability to stick for the price. i ran these for autoX in the past. i will be getting a set for road racing in the future. again, i have not ever used these on the street so i should take back my comments about them on the street. im sure they dont warm up until after a few miles. the first few miles would be a slow and cautious process.
kris

red 7

Im with sleepr1 on this one i have used the kumhos for the last 2 1/2 years on the street and autoX there great ive never had any problems(rain or cold) but i dont drive my car hard until its up to temp(engine) and thats prob farther than a few miles for the tires to warm up and i live in the south also mileage about the same as sleepr1 and its not my daily driver either

BicuspiD

Thanks for the input guys -

I think when I get the 17's Ill go with S-03s possibly, but Im going to get the Kumhos for the stock wheels to play with.

I will go ahead and get full tread/heat cycled. I dont think there will be a problem with getting heat into the tires the way I drive , and here in Orange County I think at 50 degrees they close the roads anyways =D

SleepR1

I read a Porsche Panorama article on a tire comparo between Mich Cup Comps, Pirelli Corsas, Kumho Ecsta V700s (not Victoracer V700s). Test car was Porsche 996 Carrera, 265/35-18 rr and 225/40-18 fr. P-car was flogged on a race track (can't recall which). Same driver. Overall tire winner was Mich Pilot Sport Cup Comps. Kumho was the slowest (gave up 2 secs to the Michs).

Word from the PCA club racers is that, like the Mich F1 tire, the Cup Comps take awhile to come up to temp--but--when they do, their performance is very consistent, while the Hoosier R3S03 tends to drop off.

IMO, I'd use Hoosier R3S03 as a qualifying tire, and the Michs for running the enduro (50-minute sprint race basically).

Of course Hoosier is coming out with their latest R3S04 compuond this fall. Apparently R3S04 will be more durable, and more consistent, while maintaining the classic Hoosier DOT R-compound stick we expect

SleepR1

FD Rx7s are actually very easy on tires, relatively speaking. They're light cars (mine is 2750 lbs with full tank, and clean-teched). Run 255/40-17s, which is MORE THAN ENOUGH tire for a car that light, and you can see why the FD Rx7 can squeeze 6000 miles out of a set of V-racers V700s. OTOH FWD cars absolutely CHEW UP front tires, especially if driven competitively. Given the smaller tire sizes and near similar weights to an FD Rx7, it's not hard to wonder why you go through V700s so quickly.

redrotorR1

R-compound tires stick better than street rubber .... period, end of statement, end of argument. You wanna argue that S03's or PZero's are better than race rubber in cold weather? Fine. I'll wager that the performance in cold weather is nearly the same. And once the race rubber gets a little heat in them, no contest. Hoo-hoo's need a little more ambient heat to get them sticky ... so they are at a disadvantage in really cold weather.

And as far as driving the V700's on the street, they are fine. Race rubber is a little more responsive to road undulations and with the typical racer's toe-out settings, you do have to be on your toes. But, it's not a big deal. However, once the actual tread wears away ... well, don't take them out in the rain.

SleepR1

For people who live where it doesn't rain much, either the Ecsta or Victoracer V700s make outstanding road and track tires. I live in the midwest where we get everything, so I had to go back to UHP tires like my current AVS Intermediates in 255/40-17, which are damned good tires for road, track autocross, and crusing (old man like me still cruising for chicks LOL). AVS I's are quiet too! Anyone know if Discount Tire has any 255/40-17 AVS I's lying around for "CHEEP" LOL

suprfast

if im not mistaken the AVS-i's are disconituned. just talked to my contact at tire rack and he said that its a new AVS something
kris

SleepR1

Yeah, I know, but I was hoping someone had a set of FIVE new 255/40-17s that needed a good home for "cheep" LOL

Takumi

I suggest you to re-read all the above posts and see why S03 and Pzero were brought into the discussion.... *shrug*

If one wants to drive the Victoracer on the street, that's fine. Just be careful and expect a very short tire life. And after the first few hundred miles, watch out for hyroplaning (the 2 main channels are so shallow).

SleepR1

No disrespect intended, but DamonB's a pretty sharp fellow, and a hardcore Solo II National competitor. He brings up valid arguments, as do you. IMHO, it's safe to say that folks (like me) who run R-compound tires KNOW they will not get good mileage out of them. IMO, Kumhos are cheep, and if you don't like swapping tires during the motorsports season, and your FD (or whatever car you drive) is a daily driver, then running V700s on the road makes sense. Let's give our Rx7 Forum posters credit for half a brain. Obviously with Kumhos having 6/32nds right out of the molds, that hydroplane resistance is compromised as the tires wear...

SleepR1

Takumi,

Why are you an Rx7 Forum member anyway? You don't even own a rotary??

DamonB

They came into the discussion when you said:

At that point I said "hogwash" and disagreed with your statement.

redrotorR1

I suggest you do a little more research before you go making blatantly inaccurate statements about street tires having better performance than R-compound tires, regardless of the ambient temperature. I've run practice events where I was able to drive on both street tires and Kumhos .... I know the difference. Do you?

As already stated, nobody buys race rubber expecting to get 10,000 miles out of them. I personally budget for 2-3 sets a year ... and possibly another for the National Tour and Divisionals. But, some people don't have a space/budget for a tire trailer; so driving on the Kumhos is only option.

BicuspiD, just buy the full tread tires and save yourself $60. Once you get the new tires mounted, drive around on dry pavement for 30-40 minutes with some moderate to heavy braking (to get heat into the wheels). Afterwards, park, remove the race tires&wheels, and let them cool INDOORS. I've been told you should let them cool down for at least 24 hours. Voila, heat cycled .... not that much work for $60 saved.

Takumi

Geezus Chris. I guess you guys have a problem understanding the term STREET TIRES.

Again, STREET TIRES mean something that you can drive most time of the year, relatively safely, INCLUDING hot, cold, rain, shine, even slight snow.

redrotorR1, yeah you run "practice events" with the Victos, ok, but not at all related to the question in hand. You said it's fine to use them on the street, but also suggested not to drive it in the rain. It's so obvious that you missed the whole point of this thread. READ again, yeah no offense, READ again. See the definition above for the term "Street Tire".

You told us about how you use your tire for COMPETITION, while the point of this thread is to use such tires for the street -- read: friendliness to ALL weather conditions for everyday driving.

Also, driving them as street tires mean that the tires would be on the car all year long. How could you let those tires sit out in any sub 50'F or 40'F weather during winter time?? You said you're a racer so you should know how to properly store R tires. Why would you still recommend something that would basically trash the tires?

Just step off your mile high stool for a second and think about the term street tires..... instead of calling me "making blatantly inaccurate statements".

SleepR1, no I don't own a rotary. But since it's not a requirement when I signed up, I assumed it was ok. I see plenty of misinformation floating around this board, I would correct it as I see fit.

SleepR1

Takumi, BicuspiD had his mind set to order Kumho V700s for street/light track duty. He merely asked if shaving and heat cycling is worth the extra expense. Many of us FD owners who've used V700s on the street chimed in. There is no mis information here. We stated our experiences, to help a fellow FD owner. You came here to state your opinion about Kumhos for street tire use. That's not correcting any information, that's stating YOUR opinion (and perhaps your experience). It's all moot because BicuspiD had already ordered the V700s at full tread depth, and plans to use the V700s as he originally intended. Let's not waste anymore bandwidth on this. The server's already too damned slow. This thread is closed.