PVerdieck

Well, my Konis are half installed (rears done).

Anyways, while experimenting with the settings, it looks like there is roughly 1 3/4 revolutions from softest->hardest.

I am right now using 1 full revolution from hardest.

I am using these with stock springs.

What setting are people using for everyday driving?

dclin

iTrader: (4)

Full soft, but with H&R springs.

rfreeman27

iTrader: (5)

whatever you want! i keep them soft for the street

Houdini

iTrader: (3)

Careful now, full soft on Konis are usually softer than stock. Usually 20% is stock so essentially your damping is worse than stock. On top of that, you have aftermarket springs which are stiffer than stock. Dynamics/Vibrations teaches you that with the higher spring rate(K) you need a stronger dashpot(shock) to keep the system damped the same. But it's what ever your confort level can take.

dclin

iTrader: (4)

Yours maybe softer then stock - mine sure isn't.

DamonB

My Konis on full soft are slightly stiffer than my stock base struts but softer than the R1 struts. No need to dial them in firmer for day to day driving.

Houdini

iTrader: (3)

I guess it really depends on how bad your local roads are. I run at 50% all around.

redrotorR1

I usually leave 'em on my racing setup. Gets me used to the vibrations and bumps that happen when you're on course. Sure, the plastic rattles and ride is sometimes unpleasant ... but I didn't buy the car to be luxurious in while I'm driving around town. I drive a racecar!

Eggie

Click here for Steve Cirian's page. Scroll down a bit to see damping curves for stock base, stock R1, Koni, and GAB Supers.

Houdini

iTrader: (3)

Hmmm...looks like I was right(not to brag). Full soft on Konis is softer than even the stock suspension. The plot only shows the results on Konis for 1 3 and 6 but a stock suspension would fall somewhere between that.

dclin

iTrader: (4)

It shows the softest setting of the Koni to be stiffer (compared to base/Touring) in the meat of the measured range, but softening up at higher velocities. The formating is screwed up. This sorta jives with my butt numbers. It does show the R1 damping rates to be signifcantly stiffer though.

The softest setting of the Koni matched with typical aftermarket (street) springs is perfectly fine for street driving - the context of this thread.

It is absolutely true that matching spring rates with damping rates is important when speaking of 10/10ths driving, but considering Mazda felt it was fine to match the same spring rate with two signicantly different damping rates ('93, base/Touring vs R1) for street use - there is an amount of leeway in matching street springs to aftermarket shocks - again - for street use.

Houdini

iTrader: (3)

maybe I'm reading something wrong on that page...
For fronts:

Compression
Velocity......Base Suspension.........R1........Koni@1
1..........................50...................50 .............20
5.........................125.................100. .........100
10.......................175.................110.. ........170

Rebound(most important of the 2)
Velocity......Base Suspension.........R1........Koni@1
1..........................60...................30 0............90
5.........................375................>500. .........280
10.......................500................>500.. ........370

In compression, the Konis are softer than the base model. In rebound, they're a little stiffer at the very low velocities but the Base suspension gets stiffer at 4in/sec. And forget about the R1s, even the stiffest setting on the konis can't match those according to these charts.

The konis aren't that stiff actually. I use them in AutoX with stock springs and I have to basically crank them up all the way. Might have to go double adjustable and have them revalved by Tripoint.

redrotorR1

These graphs are really messed up. The data does not match what my firsthand experience has been with 3 of the 4 different shocks listed (I've never driven on the Base/Touring shocks). Plus, it does not state which Koni shock is being tested ... Koni has several different models, with each having very different levels of performance. And these arbitrarily chosen "settings" .... I don't buy it; if indeed, the Yellows are being represented; then why does compression setting 6 have different values than settings 1-5? Yellows are rebound-adjustable ONLY. And the 2812's are probably the best double-adjustable money can buy. I highly doubt that you'd see almost zero change in compression dampening through the majority of the adjustment range. I call B.S. if the Koni's being represented are the Yellows or the 2812's. And why would the Base/Touring shocks have better dampening at higher wheel rates than the R1 shocks ... the, ahem, race setup? These numbers just don't make logical sense.

The only data on there that I will testify as being accurate is the GAB Super R's. The GAB's are severely linear and, IMO, are overdamped for the stock springs. The Koni Yellows are a nice in-between of the Showa R1 shocks and the GAB's. I can't speak for the Base/Touring shocks. There's my hat in the ring.

Houdini

iTrader: (3)

Actually, when adjusting Konis, you primarily adjust rebound but it also does a little compression as well. That's even stated on their website somewhere. Also, the stock suspension doesn't have better rates than the R1. Infact, the R1 looks like it's so damped at higher rates, that it's off the chart. I assume that the force guage tops out at 500lbs. Check the Graphs

Eggie

First, lets compare the R1 with base shocks. The R1 is significantly softer in compression. In rebound, the front R1 is WAY stiffer, while the rear R1 is somewhat stiffer in the middle velocities. I'd guess that this will let the R1 suspension lower itself whenever it gets a lot of motion, as in over bumps or during rapid transitions. In addition, the greater increase in front rebound tells me that there will be more roll oversteer. Now I'm no racecar engineer, but I'd say that Mazda designed the R1 to kick *** in autocross. And the results show! (FWIW, the GAB Super seems to be an R1 for stiffer springs.)

Okay, what about the Koni? It's got interesting compression behavior... Basically, the compression is not affected until that last 1/4 turn on the adjuster. Koni must believe that compression damping should be matched to the unsprung weight and basically left alone. I'd be very careful about using full stiff, though compression damping is probably reasonable if you back the adjuster off slightly. The very high compression at full stiff would help prevent the car's lowering itself over bumps, but that's probably a last-ditch adjustment for racing only. Anyone running full stiff on the street?

At full stiff, the Koni matches the R1 in rebound from 0 to 0.5 at which point it gradually becomes digressive. Still, the Koni never gets as soft as the base shocks. This tuning should make the Koni a lot more forgiving than the R1, especially over bumps, while offering more control than the base shocks. (And it's probably a better track shock than the R1 unless Michael Schumacher is driving.) Because it isn't stiffer than the R1, I'm not sure how stiff a spring it can control properly. OTOH, the R1 is VERY stiff, and Ntech doesn't seem to have a problem with their Konis and serious springs...

Great, but how would I set the Koni? Good question. For street use, do NOT go full stiff, period. But even with stock springs, running close to full should be okay if you like the feel. With heavy springs, more than half stiff is probably a good idea. For autocross, crank the suckers closed, then back off a little bit. Soften the end that slides first, and you should be pretty close. For track use, follow the autocross advice, but start off a bit softer.

redrotorR1

That may be so about the compression "adjustment"; but the final setting is 100 points larger than settings 1-5. No way, no how. I don't know any valves that give zero response until full open/close. As far as the R1 shocks, you're only looking at rebound. Compression is significantly lower on the Showa R1 shocks. Again, lower compression dampening in a "race" shock?

Eggie, you make a good point on the R1 graphs; however, a ideal racecar will be critically damped. With the lower compression rate, the body of the car will roll more in steady state turns and be less stable through quick transitions. The compression rate should be more progressive to be a better "race" shock.

Eggie

Critical damping is probably a good thing to shoot for, but you will eventually find at least one corner that the car doesn't like with that setup. If it's an important corner, you may well adjust the shocks and go faster. In addition, softer compression should keep the car more stable if you hit a bump with just one wheel.

I cannot agree with the "steady state" part.

I don't understand this. I read "progressive" as an increasing rate as velocity goes up - bumps would suck.

DamonB

Right. Shocks can be used to control body roll in high speed chassis transition, but they do not effect steady state cornering. The only things that hold the car up are the springs. If you were to go to a skidpad you would find that the car would roll the same amount with the shocks on full hard as it would with the shocks on full soft.

The only things that control body roll are the springs and the sway bars (which in fact merely link the springs on opposite sides of the car).

redrotorR1

True, the springs are the primary factor in controlling body roll in a steady state turn. However, only in an "ideal" corner will the radius stay constant and steering input stay unchanged. In most racing lines, late apexes will induce more lateral force on the car. Also, ideal steady state turns do not account for surface changes and/or changes in road camber. These real-time situation changes require "good" dampening. I agree that springs have the most effect, but shocks are not unimportant .... I have personal experiences to testify that shocks matter in steady state cornering.

As far as the progressive curve, I mean exactly that. Low speed dampening would be softer, but higher speed dampening would show greater slope change in the compression rate. So, bumps would only suck if you decided to go flying over them.

DamonB

Too much rebound damping can cause "jacking down"; off the shelf shocks are never in danger of causing this. Imagine the car running over a washboard surface. Each time the suspension goes into bump if the rebound setting of the shock is so high as to not let the shock extend again before encountering the next bump, you could see how the car would basically never regain ride height and actually lower itself with each successive bump. Given enough bumps you end up on the stops and then the ride gets interesting

Eggie

redrotor, it sounds like you would be happiest with R1 or GAB Supers.

redrotorR1

Actually, I had the GAB Super R's and switched to Koni Yellows. I ended up selling the Super R's (needed money) and, in retrospect, I think that was a mistake. The Super R's probably best fit my needs right now .... d'oh.

But, I'm not unhappy with the Koni Yellows. Although, I am considering donating blood, semen, and possibly a kidney so I can get some integrated coilovers ....

bcty

i love my konis i have them almost full... i turned them to full then backed off 1cm or so.. handles ohh soo goood

PVerdieck

I am trying 1 half rotation from firmest now. It seems fine.

SPOautos

How do like them so far? I'm thinking of getting some. Do they seem to ride good over bumps and all that? Someone mentioned with lowering springs he was having problems with them bottoming out or something over bumps. Is that happening to yours? I think he just had them to low for his springs.

STEPHEN