I've read through all the stickies and have gotten myself pretty well confused.

I've got a '94 FD with stock suspension and wheels and 225/50R16 Nitto NT 450 tires. The car will be driven often on wet roads and frankly the tires don't seem to give a lot of grip now on wet pavement. I'd like to be able to do three things in the following order.
1) Improve wet traction
2) Decrease road noise
3) Improve appearance

The car won't see a track, just the street. So, a couple of questions.

How much would increasing wheel/tire width do to increase wet traction? Would going to a 9 inch width with a 235 tire make any appreciable difference? 9.5/245 or 10/265?

What tire would folks recommend for better wet traction and less road noise than the NT 450s?

Am I just deluding myself?

 

in my personal experience, adding width does not really help with wet traction. i went from ST115's in 225/45 to 245/40 and imo, it actually increases the tendency to hydroplane, everything else being equal. i feel tread pattern and possibly tire compound have more to do with traction in wet.

the nt450's are supposed to be average to decent in rain. are they old? you could try softening the tire pressure.

i'm sure there is a tire out there that offers superior wet traction compared to the nt450, but i'm not qualified to suggest anythin since i haven't actually driven on the nittos. both ST115s and T1R's have performed well in the rain for me; and the tread patern doesn't look bad at all. you might want to give one of those tires a shot.

 

Bridgestone RE-01R's are tremendous in the rain, it's one of the contenders for best grip on a street tire AND best grip in the wet on a street tire.

 

I was wondering about the hyrdoplaning as well. On simply wet pavement, rather than standing water, I thought that an extra inch or so of width would increase the total friction by increasing the surface area in contact with the road. However, I'm sure there is more to the story than that. Thanks for the feedback.

 

I don't suppose you have any idea as to road noise do you?

 

I use the tires daily...................very very very very civil, probably the lowest road noise out of all of the extreme performance street tires. (Azenis RT-615, Advan Neova AD07, Ecsta MX)

The road noise and ride comfort are definitely NOT representative of what you would think would be the norm for a street tire of such a high grip level.

I don't work for Bridgestone or anything, nor am I affiliated with them, I am just a lucky early adopter of the tire before anyone knew anything about them, and it turns out to be this year's SCCA Street Touring class tire to beat. That's why I trumpet them so proudly.

 

Wider usually equates to a higher possibility of hydro planing and decreased wet traction in general. However, in reality it depends on the tread design and tire compound. In the rain, race car drivers use softer springs and shocks and remove the slicks. Stock shocks and springs will very likely offer you the most performance in wet weather use. Plus its nice and comfy in the dry also.

The NT450s didn't have a lot of wet traction to begin with. If you've had them for over 3 years, they are probably very hard and pretty much done for at this point with regards to traction and grip.

The Toyo T1R is a good tire that is excellent in the wet (and dry) and is a lot quieter. The Kumho MX is also a good tire that delivers both good wet and slightly better dry performance.

You are not deluding yourself.

 

Thanks again Roen and Gracer7. The Bridgestone sound good as do the Toyos. I may look at changing to a 8.5/235 or 9.0/245. Then I'll look at both those tires.

 

I would suggest looking at the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 or the Kumho MX. Both of those have very good dry and wet performance.

 

There are two kinds of wet. Wet, as in not dry, and wet, as in puddles and stuff when it's actually raining.

For just plain wet surfaces, most tires will perform like they do in the dry, just with less grip. Even a slicked r-compound will be grippier than a rain tire when the surface is wet but there are no puddles. Wider is better, just like dry. I only mention this because if you're racing this is a situation where a 'dry' tire can work well in the wet.

But for street driving, that's just trivia. On the street there will always be puddles at some point, even if it's simply the rain draining off the road - you need hydroplaning resistance. The challenge of hydroplaning is to get the rubber to cut into the water and then push that water out the sides of the tire tread. Narrower tires put more pressure on the contact patch and also require the water to travel less to get out from under the contact patch. Therefore wider is definitely worse. Most good rain tires aren't known for being very quiet, due to the large, blocky tread designs.

IMO, just keep the stock wheel width for street driving. I would only go wider if you're ok with compromising grip in the rain.

Snow is just a more extreme version of a rain tire, because you're hydroplaning on solid water 100% of the time. I am not talking about all-season tires here, so snow is not an option.

Now to the tire recommendations. There are plenty of options ranging from an RE-01R (short life, great dry grip, sorta noisy, decent in rain) to Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 (great in rain, medium life, slightly noisy, good in dry), to plain performance tires. Those are two I've used. The Kumho MX, Toyo T1-R, Kumho SPT, etc are all options.

I suggest you simply surf tirerack.com and check out the ratings for various performance summer tires in the stock sizes. They have noise, durability, grip, etc. While each customer's review will be wildly different from the next, the overall rating averages really are a good reflection of reality.

Dave

 

Will do. Thanks for the suggestions. Right now I'm trying to make sense out of the whole size/fitment issue.

 

Thanks Dave. Your explanation makes sense as to wet performance. I'll read the reviews and see what rises to the surface.