ColdFeet

iTrader: (4)

Not to puff post, but +100
Howard's thread is one of the most substantive in a long time.
Thank you Howard for taking the time - much appreciated.

Styk33

Howard, thank you for the shock dyno graphs. Sorry for not participating more, but I am building a BMW right now and only "tinker" with my FD when I have extra time

Great info in this thread. Now can someone explain to me why I spend more time working on a 100hp BMW than on a 500hp FD. Ugh.

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

Would anyone be able to get me the precise measurements on the Tein SS coilovers. I want to know the length and diameter of the springs.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i assume the Tein HAs have the same dimensions as the SS. i do not know if the SS employs a "helper" spring.

here are the numbers from my front HAs.

I removed a front Tein HA shock from my 93 rx7. It is an 8 KG.

Main spring free height is 7”.

Width at top (O D) is 115 MM or 4.5 inches. Bottom width is 98.7 MM or 3.88 inches.

Helper spring free height is 3 inches.
Helper spring width (O D) is 93.4 or 3.68 inches.

Aluminum separator (between main and helper) is 3 MM thick and 90 MM wide.

At correct ride height there is .78 of additional adjustment downward and 1.32 inches upward measured at the shock. due to the motio ratio that translates into 1.3 at the fender (down) and 2.2 up.

hc

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

The SS does not employ a helper spring. I was hoping that the SS would have metric sizing since this would have meant that the spring could be substituted for a Tanabe Pro210 spring.

Do you know the inner diameters? Swift has a plethora of springs, but they are 400$ a set. I am really considering moving up to the Flex's because of all these problemes with the SS.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

it seems more and more that the Flex offers alot for someone wanting to get rolling. since the Flex uses a "straight" spring i would expect lots more options and availability. perhaps you just go w the pillowball upper mount and pay a few bucks more. while i prefer the 8/6 to the 10/8 i have logged lots of miles on the Flex 10/8s and they are o k. if you decide later otherwise you just order up 4 springs and spend an afternoon doing the switch.

let's find out the free height, o d and i d of the Flex spring. maybe we can switch to circle track springs which are less than half price, come in 25 pound ticks, and are excellent as to quality. i will do some checking. if anyone has the dimensions (front and rear) pls post away.

hc

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

Can we talk swaybars. Why is it that I should go with something like the Speedway when compared to the Tanabe, Swift, Cusco or other stock like formed swaybars?

Using the calculation of (OD^4-ID^4) given on fd3s.net I get a 1.31 coefficient on increased stiffness when compared to the original swaybar. How does this compare to other bars?

I remember reading somewhere that you said that the Tanabe rear bar should be +30% is this true?

apexFD

So the general consensus is on the Tein Flex now? Is there any other option which would be compatible with circle track springs? The SS is a great price for me so i was hoping on going with it.


I am still tuned into this.


=Ben

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

Ben I sent you a PM.

FDWarrior

iTrader: (6)

Dang, I really dont know anything about suspension . Is there a book with this kind of stuff in it? Im about to start suspension on my FD. Good info.

silver_7

Man I felt like I was in class....awsome thanks.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

finally out of the (literally) barn. while not a great pic, you might be interested to note that my wife's car has Eibachs and runs 17s... 235/45 & 275/40. HTR Z IIIs. my car is at 25 inch ride height w coil overs and runs 18s. 255/35 & 295/30s HTR Z IIIs. i am delighted that the 255s upfront do not touch the wheel wells w my +40 offset Enkeis.




i have logged about 60 miles w my Speedway Eng front swaybar and am pleasantly surprised as to the lack of harshness. i run the Speedway Bronze bushings so there is no rubber nowhere. the car feels very planted in the front but part of this is due to me making the switch to 255s from 235s in the front. longitudinal balance is yet to be determined and can easily be influenced w a different (Tanabe- Racing Beat) rear bar.

BTW, the swaybar options in addition to the Speedway/Tripoint option are:

Tanabe
front bar +30% over stock 30 MM o d 20.4 i d
rear bar +37.9% over stock 20 MM o d 15 MM i d

Swift
rear +21% solid

Suspension Techniques
rear 19 MM solid

Cusco
rear 18 MM

Racing Beat
front
rear 2 hole adj

i reiterate that swaybars deserve much more attention than they generally receive. if i were starting at ground zero w a stock suspension i would bolt on a set (definitely you want BOTH front and rear bars as we are tuning BALANCE and you won't get it by sitting on one end of the teeter totter) so that leads you to either Tanabe or Racing Beat. that way you keep a decent ride and remove most of the body roll.

Eibachs for most should follow. Further, for most w coil overs.... i want to stress that it is always a pleasure to drive my FD. even though i am running 35 and 30 series tires w 9.5 and 10.5 wheels. it is because of my 8/6 springs. the car tracks like a slot car yet doesn't make you wince going over a few bumps. if you don't enjoy going to the store w your FD you have the wrong suspension.

i also want to put another plug in for the Eibachs. do not think that you won't feel a dramatic difference because they are not coil overs. combined w a set of bars, and stock shocks you will be smiling. (don't forget my suspension and tire settings from post one.)

i am off (in my FD of course) friday for a 660 mile round trip to Minneapolis to see friend Frank of 160 MPH spin fame. we are going to fab a heat shield for his T66 20B FD and have a beer or 3. Frank runs the Tein Flex setup.

dyno and Blackhawk are getting closer.

thanks to all for your contributions and kind words,

hc

apexFD

So to beat the coilover debate to death one more time...



Would i be foolish to get the Tein SS with 8k/6k springs? I guess ill be looking at 1050 or so with the coilover/springs.


The tein flex seems to be much more expensive, even from prostreet. Then to get 8k/6k requires a bit more spending still.



What other options do we have here?




=Ben

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

my pref is SS 8/6

apexFD

OK, so funny story.



Ive being really thinking hard about what coilovers i want... pricing them out and determining how good they are with my limited knowledge Here is my findings.

Tein SS - $835+ 8k/6k new springs + shipping (and tax/duty if international)

Tein Flex - $1260 comes with 10k/8k = shipping (and tax/duty if international)

Greddy S Monotube coilover - $1185 comes with 10k/8k + shipping (and tax/duty if international) Aparently these are a lot like the RE amemiya coilovers.

http://www.prostreetonline.com/psm/suspension.asp


So i havent come to a decision on any of these, still doing some research to see which one is the best bang for the buck. So far the Tein Flex seems the logical choice.


Then i remembered that my parts car in my driveway has a set of coilovers... hmm i wonder what they are!? So i drove home and took off a wheel, they are Aragosta Hmm, so after doing some research i found that they are pretty high end coilovers.

http://www.neweraparts.com/Default.a...&ProductID=633

10.3k front and 7.8k rear... not bad. I would have preferred something closer to 8k/6k, but i cannot complain too much because it is free...


I am not sure what kind of shape these Aragosta coilovers are in, but i will soon find out.



I would love to know your opinion on these Howard!.


EDIT: Just read your last post Howard.


Regards,


=Ben

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

free in your driveway does have it's advantages.

i can see a set of swaybars materializing

hc

apexFD

Haha ya, ill stay tuned to see which ones to get haha .


I was unable to find specs on the Aragosta's... As far as i know i have the 'standard model', but it is very hard to find any specs that are not japanese haha.

This is the closest i have gotten..


http://translate.google.com/translat...ial%26hs%3Dv7E


Howard, do you know how these coilovers compare to say a Tein Flex 10k/8k?? Surely you must have come across this brand?



Regards,


=Ben

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

Michel (forget his username) on this forum has Aragostas. Search for them here in the suspension section. Very high end stuff. Higher end coil overs often do a better job of dampening stiffer spring rates. Fritz Flynn and a couple of others stated that earlier.

If you don't use them, let me know.

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

Aragosta standard is 10.3 kg front 7.8kg rear, 12 adjustements. Ben if you already have these I wouldn't buy anything else. You have already pretty much toped this area.

apexFD

Well, this is great news to say the least. Buying parts is 10000% more of a pain in Canada, especially when you live on Vancouver island.


I am going to pull these off the parts car this weekend and see how they look. Aragosta hasnt got back to me on rebuilding these, i hope they do.


I was hoping for 8k/6k for better ride quality, perhaps i can still get differant springs in the future.


Ill stay tuned and keep you guys posted on how they are!



Regards,



=Ben

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

Now you have more money for:

Swaybars and swaybar mounts lucky guy!

Edit: Howard reading on older posts I saw some people had problems with the arm bend rubbing against larger sized wheels at full lock. Have you had any problems with you bent Speedway arms?

apexFD

Just sent payment for widefoot swaybar mounts!




Thanks for all the help guys.



=Ben

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

Howard, I'd be interested in your rear swaybar choice once you've logged some miles with your Speedway front swaybar which I also have.

I'm currently running 600lbs/425lbs spring with Advance Design coilovers, and with the Speedway front swaybar (with Widefoot mounts) in the 2nd to the end setting, the car just slightly pushes, nothing a little throttle-induced oversteer doesn't correct with 265 R-compound Kumho 710's.

:-) neil

primerGrey

iTrader: (13)

Neil, is that with the stock rear 1993 sway bar?

Kevin Doe

iTrader: (1)

He was refering to Teins's Monotube Flex, aka Mono Flex. They do in fact come with 14k/12k springs. I have a set of them on my car. I was thinking about dropping down to 12k/10k. But not sure.

I have the Tein Monoflex setup, Tripoint Engineering front bar with 0.125" wall and its set the middle adjustment hole, stock 93 rear bar. The car seems to handle very well for high speed turns. Feels very balanced and predictable. In low speed turns like you'd see in an autox I get a decent amount of understeer.

I'm running significantly more camber as well, 2.4 front, 1.5 rear. This is my first FD so I just kinda guessed at what I thought camber would like to be.

I'm running 255 fronts, 275 rears, Falken Azenis. I have significantly more torque than most rotaries (cammed LS1 swap), so I can pretty easily get some throttle steer if I need it.

To me the car doesn't feel like it has 14k/12k springs on it. It doesn't feel harsh to me on the streets. For autocross I may go one adjustment hole out on the front sway arms, and leave it in the middle for the road courses.

These are just my thoughs.