Highend FD Coilovers: What's Good Enough?
08-11-11, 04:02 PM
#28
Shine Mentions the greatness of having dual adjustable suspension (compression + rebound).
I have a budget around $3000.
Options on the table that I am considering:
Stance GR+ 2way or 3Way (external reservoir)
http://www.stance-usa.com/sus/produc...ers/190-gr2way
http://www.stance-usa.com/sus/products/coilovers/gr3way
or
Ohlins DFV with 13K/11K Springs (They come with 11k, so I could pick up a 13K front and be done).
or
Zeal Function X/D
I have a budget around $3000.
Options on the table that I am considering:
Stance GR+ 2way or 3Way (external reservoir)
http://www.stance-usa.com/sus/produc...ers/190-gr2way
http://www.stance-usa.com/sus/products/coilovers/gr3way
or
Ohlins DFV with 13K/11K Springs (They come with 11k, so I could pick up a 13K front and be done).
or
Zeal Function X/D
08-11-11, 05:59 PM
#30
Shine Mentions the greatness of having dual adjustable suspension (compression + rebound).
I have a budget around $3000.
Options on the table that I am considering:
Stance GR+ 2way or 3Way (external reservoir)
http://www.stance-usa.com/sus/produc...ers/190-gr2way
http://www.stance-usa.com/sus/products/coilovers/gr3way
or
Ohlins DFV with 13K/11K Springs (They come with 11k, so I could pick up a 13K front and be done).
or
Zeal Function X/D
I have a budget around $3000.
Options on the table that I am considering:
Stance GR+ 2way or 3Way (external reservoir)
http://www.stance-usa.com/sus/produc...ers/190-gr2way
http://www.stance-usa.com/sus/products/coilovers/gr3way
or
Ohlins DFV with 13K/11K Springs (They come with 11k, so I could pick up a 13K front and be done).
or
Zeal Function X/D
08-12-11, 06:41 PM
#31
Junior Member
Just to add afew details to a question on the first page regarding Stance coilovers deriving from Dg-5s.
DG-5 are the same coilovers as the former Kei Offices meaning that Keichi Tsuchiyia sold his company a few years ago.
RE-Amemiya uses (and sells) modified DG-5s on their "street" cornering machine (touge monster) and also on their drift D1-GP car. Remember these cars beat GT-R 35s in cornering and you know what R35s do to almost everyother "mass production" supercar.
RE-Amemiya also uses (and sells) modiified QUANTUM coilovers on their 3-rotor GT car (won the championship in '06 and came 5th last year if I'm not mistaken)
Quantum are also used by Ti-Racing and many other tuners........they should know.
Personaly I'am also on the search for a nice set of coilovers and I probably will go for the Ohlins Road and TRack mostly because their quality is second to none and they can be serviced in my country while DG-5s would have to be shipped back and forth to Japan for servicing.
DG-5 are the same coilovers as the former Kei Offices meaning that Keichi Tsuchiyia sold his company a few years ago.
RE-Amemiya uses (and sells) modified DG-5s on their "street" cornering machine (touge monster) and also on their drift D1-GP car. Remember these cars beat GT-R 35s in cornering and you know what R35s do to almost everyother "mass production" supercar.
RE-Amemiya also uses (and sells) modiified QUANTUM coilovers on their 3-rotor GT car (won the championship in '06 and came 5th last year if I'm not mistaken)
Quantum are also used by Ti-Racing and many other tuners........they should know.
Personaly I'am also on the search for a nice set of coilovers and I probably will go for the Ohlins Road and TRack mostly because their quality is second to none and they can be serviced in my country while DG-5s would have to be shipped back and forth to Japan for servicing.
08-12-11, 10:17 PM
#32
Radioactive Rotary Rocket
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quantum coilovers, aka QRS. Have a wonderful website explaining in full detail the science behind their performance, cut through diagrams, shock dynos showing the 5 different piston head designs you can choose from, etc. It's fantastic, easily the technical information a suspension maker has ever provided to the public - even better than Ohlins.
The DG5 website reminds me of a trip back to 1994 Internet.
It's just real hard to sell me on DG5 because all they have are endorsements and strong word of mouth reputation. Even if it's a good product I don't know how much it's going to cost to rebuild it because all they have is an email form, no cost spreadsheet.
Stance USA is even shakier in my opinion because they are trying to associate themselves to the endorsements DG5 gets without any official affiliation to DG5. Stance Japan says that they are an American suspension company that just came to Japan. So it's a lot of contradictions and the only actual verifiable real data that I have been able to get is that Stance is receiving shipments from a Korean suspension maker. There are so many rumors and wild claims. But the only thing I know for sure is that at least some of what Stance sells is Korean. That discovery was countered by a Stance vendor who asserts that the Stance GR series is made in Korea, but everything else comes out of the DG5 factory. I can't even find a DG5 factory in Japan! They have one warehouse, but they aren't making them here. I don't think it matters a whole lot where they are made, but I just wish there was some truth. I'm not asking them to give me the name of their supplier, but at least an honest country of origin statement would be appreciated. The suspension companies that are proud of their production have no problem stating it. Ohlins R&T is manufactured in Japan by Yamaha, QRS is made in Japan, Eibach Multipro is made in America, the Germans are all made in Germany but everyone else (90% of what you see on the road) has lost their minds.
The DG5 website reminds me of a trip back to 1994 Internet.
It's just real hard to sell me on DG5 because all they have are endorsements and strong word of mouth reputation. Even if it's a good product I don't know how much it's going to cost to rebuild it because all they have is an email form, no cost spreadsheet.
Stance USA is even shakier in my opinion because they are trying to associate themselves to the endorsements DG5 gets without any official affiliation to DG5. Stance Japan says that they are an American suspension company that just came to Japan. So it's a lot of contradictions and the only actual verifiable real data that I have been able to get is that Stance is receiving shipments from a Korean suspension maker. There are so many rumors and wild claims. But the only thing I know for sure is that at least some of what Stance sells is Korean. That discovery was countered by a Stance vendor who asserts that the Stance GR series is made in Korea, but everything else comes out of the DG5 factory. I can't even find a DG5 factory in Japan! They have one warehouse, but they aren't making them here. I don't think it matters a whole lot where they are made, but I just wish there was some truth. I'm not asking them to give me the name of their supplier, but at least an honest country of origin statement would be appreciated. The suspension companies that are proud of their production have no problem stating it. Ohlins R&T is manufactured in Japan by Yamaha, QRS is made in Japan, Eibach Multipro is made in America, the Germans are all made in Germany but everyone else (90% of what you see on the road) has lost their minds.
08-12-11, 11:41 PM
#33
I to have the Ohlins with 14kg Swift Spings in Chicago. The ride is not THAT bad, but the Ohlin Coilovers are hands down amazing. I have my fronts set to 6 clicks from stiffest setting and the rear at 9 clicks from stiffest setting. The rear could maybe be a bit softer but the ride is not bad at all. Rough roads you will feel it, but highways it rides super smooth. I will have my first track day with these next month.
08-31-11, 03:01 PM
#34
Quick update
After more seat time, I can't get over how much more enjoyable these coilovers have made the car. Both on the street and so far at 1 autox.
I did an autox with the Miata group over at Tire Rack's facility in South Bend Indiana and could not be happier with the way the car performed. AutoX at Tire Rack's facility is great because its on their actual test track. Even with the thicker 93 rear sway bar, the car felt very balanced. I quickly found the next weak link requiring replacement, TIRES. While these Fuzion ZRi's have been a good street tire, they just did not cut it at the autox.
I am now preparing for Road America in October with MVP track time. This will be the true test of the coilovers and the FD in general
This will be my first time at Road America so anyone tips or tricks on car setup would be appreciated.
Some area's of the car I need to tackle before the event.
Brakes. Currently have Hawk HPS, debating between swapping in Hawk HP+ or Racing Brake's ET800 series. Also plan on flushing the fluid with super blue.
Oil Coolers. Car is a PEP and only has the drivers side cooler. Trying to research if these cars actually require dual 25 row coolers or will the factory dual setup be enough?
Tires. Nothing but R comps in 245/45/16 and don't feel like spending money on factory sized 225 tires! I am trying to sell or trade my Work Equips (18x8.5 and 18x9.5) for more track oriented light weight wheels however due to the lack of interest and tire sizes available in 16's I may just buy tires and mount them up.
Besides the suspension overhaul seen in this thread, here is the rest of the setup.
Pettit ECU
SEQ twins (silicone hoses and new solenoids last year)
M2 intake box
Stock intercooler (I know, I know!)
Fuel Anti-Surge System, hardwired fuel pump
A-Spec Downpipe
A-Spec 3.5" exhaust
FC Thermo switch
Pettit AST
Fluidyne Radiator
ACT Clutch & SR flywheel
Profec B (I will keep boost at 10psi for reliability on stock intercooler)
Rotorsports motor mounts
I'll post an indepth update after Road America!
After more seat time, I can't get over how much more enjoyable these coilovers have made the car. Both on the street and so far at 1 autox.
I did an autox with the Miata group over at Tire Rack's facility in South Bend Indiana and could not be happier with the way the car performed. AutoX at Tire Rack's facility is great because its on their actual test track. Even with the thicker 93 rear sway bar, the car felt very balanced. I quickly found the next weak link requiring replacement, TIRES. While these Fuzion ZRi's have been a good street tire, they just did not cut it at the autox.
I am now preparing for Road America in October with MVP track time. This will be the true test of the coilovers and the FD in general
This will be my first time at Road America so anyone tips or tricks on car setup would be appreciated.
Some area's of the car I need to tackle before the event.
Brakes. Currently have Hawk HPS, debating between swapping in Hawk HP+ or Racing Brake's ET800 series. Also plan on flushing the fluid with super blue.
Oil Coolers. Car is a PEP and only has the drivers side cooler. Trying to research if these cars actually require dual 25 row coolers or will the factory dual setup be enough?
Tires. Nothing but R comps in 245/45/16 and don't feel like spending money on factory sized 225 tires! I am trying to sell or trade my Work Equips (18x8.5 and 18x9.5) for more track oriented light weight wheels however due to the lack of interest and tire sizes available in 16's I may just buy tires and mount them up.
Besides the suspension overhaul seen in this thread, here is the rest of the setup.
Pettit ECU
SEQ twins (silicone hoses and new solenoids last year)
M2 intake box
Stock intercooler (I know, I know!)
Fuel Anti-Surge System, hardwired fuel pump
A-Spec Downpipe
A-Spec 3.5" exhaust
FC Thermo switch
Pettit AST
Fluidyne Radiator
ACT Clutch & SR flywheel
Profec B (I will keep boost at 10psi for reliability on stock intercooler)
Rotorsports motor mounts
I'll post an indepth update after Road America!
09-01-11, 10:44 PM
#35
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Give the ET800s a shot, I loved them for dual purpose pads..... this with the RB front big brake setup. Really scrubbed off speed on track compared to something like an HP+.
R1 oil coolers should work fine for you given moderate boost levels. Keep in mind the tiny openings on the usdm front bumper are also a limiting factor.
I'll PM you about the wheels/tires
R1 oil coolers should work fine for you given moderate boost levels. Keep in mind the tiny openings on the usdm front bumper are also a limiting factor.
I'll PM you about the wheels/tires
09-02-11, 12:54 PM
#36
Don't know what you consider high end but I wouldn't put Stance in that catagory. made in Taiwan I believe in the same factories as bc racing, megan etc.
it is still a nice coilover, but when I think of high end coilover, i think of ohlins, zeal, moton, etc...
it is still a nice coilover, but when I think of high end coilover, i think of ohlins, zeal, moton, etc...
Last edited by dvo; 09-02-11 at 12:56 PM.
10-17-11, 03:28 PM
#37
Long overdue update as I just got back from Road America.
First off, I got stuck using Fuzion ZRi tires on stock wheels, 225/50/16 all around. Keep that in mind for this review and more on that later.
Secondly, Road America is one hell of a track. While in the middle of nowhere, I would suggest everyone to make it out to an event. Be sure to catch a ride with an instructor, its unreal how fast some of them can make it around the track!
The Ohlins performed way above my expectations from both corner balance to ride quality over the rumble strips
. I have been skeptical about running the same spring rate front and rear (11k) however the car felt completely neutral, even with the thicker 93 rear sway bar. Brake dive and squat upon acceleration were also minimal.
Anyone familiar with RA, I was able to put the power down heavy out of carousel without the tail wanting to come out and play. Turn in was also perfect with the front shocks set at 6 clicks from full stiff and the rear 10 clicks from full stiff. Even when I got anxious around turn 14 getting on the boost early, the car was very balanced with no sudden urge for the tail to swap ends!
The Ohlins very much live up to their name, Road & Track.
Power wise on this long and fast track I had no problem staying with or passing cars on the straights. I havn't dynoed my car however I'd estimate with ~300rwhp it had PLENTY of power for this track. Not once did I feel it was lacking straight line acceleration. I was able to hit 140mph on the front straight with ease. With the brake issue detailed below I ended up keeping it to 120mph on the fast sections of the track.
Now the bad! Brakes and Tires
I wanted to give the Endless MX72 pads a try however due to availability I went with Racing Brake ET800 pads all around with Power Slot rotors. During hard braking, the rear ABS would engage at a VERY low threshold thus causing the rear of the car to become scary loose. Max rotor temp I saw after a 1/2 lap cool down was a measly ~300 degrees. For comparison, my friends evo was seeing ~500+ degrees after the same 1/2 lap cool down. He ran Hawk HT10 fronts, stock rears, PowerSlot rotors, Star Spec tires.
Now there are a number of factors I need to nail down (your input) on why the rear end was soo loose during braking.
1. The skinny fuzion tires were not helping. I played with tire pressure eventually settling with 30psi rear and 32psi front.
2. I had an ABS light hours before I had to leave for the event. This turned out to be a broken wire under the bins leading to the driver side abs sensor. In haste, I simply used a butt connector to fix this. I am wondering if this would mess up the signal going to the ABS computer?
3. Probably least significant however due to limited time and the front brake line fitting stripping, I was only able to put SS lines on the rear, front remained stock.
4. Too aggressive of a pad on the rear brakes?
Next steps are to mount up sticker tires and see if the it changes the dynamic of running the same spring rate. I am looking at 255/35/18 front and 275/35/18 rears.
First off, I got stuck using Fuzion ZRi tires on stock wheels, 225/50/16 all around. Keep that in mind for this review and more on that later.
Secondly, Road America is one hell of a track. While in the middle of nowhere, I would suggest everyone to make it out to an event. Be sure to catch a ride with an instructor, its unreal how fast some of them can make it around the track!
The Ohlins performed way above my expectations from both corner balance to ride quality over the rumble strips
. I have been skeptical about running the same spring rate front and rear (11k) however the car felt completely neutral, even with the thicker 93 rear sway bar. Brake dive and squat upon acceleration were also minimal.Anyone familiar with RA, I was able to put the power down heavy out of carousel without the tail wanting to come out and play. Turn in was also perfect with the front shocks set at 6 clicks from full stiff and the rear 10 clicks from full stiff. Even when I got anxious around turn 14 getting on the boost early, the car was very balanced with no sudden urge for the tail to swap ends!
The Ohlins very much live up to their name, Road & Track.
Power wise on this long and fast track I had no problem staying with or passing cars on the straights. I havn't dynoed my car however I'd estimate with ~300rwhp it had PLENTY of power for this track. Not once did I feel it was lacking straight line acceleration. I was able to hit 140mph on the front straight with ease. With the brake issue detailed below I ended up keeping it to 120mph on the fast sections of the track.
Now the bad! Brakes and Tires
I wanted to give the Endless MX72 pads a try however due to availability I went with Racing Brake ET800 pads all around with Power Slot rotors. During hard braking, the rear ABS would engage at a VERY low threshold thus causing the rear of the car to become scary loose. Max rotor temp I saw after a 1/2 lap cool down was a measly ~300 degrees. For comparison, my friends evo was seeing ~500+ degrees after the same 1/2 lap cool down. He ran Hawk HT10 fronts, stock rears, PowerSlot rotors, Star Spec tires.
Now there are a number of factors I need to nail down (your input) on why the rear end was soo loose during braking.
1. The skinny fuzion tires were not helping. I played with tire pressure eventually settling with 30psi rear and 32psi front.
2. I had an ABS light hours before I had to leave for the event. This turned out to be a broken wire under the bins leading to the driver side abs sensor. In haste, I simply used a butt connector to fix this. I am wondering if this would mess up the signal going to the ABS computer?
3. Probably least significant however due to limited time and the front brake line fitting stripping, I was only able to put SS lines on the rear, front remained stock.
4. Too aggressive of a pad on the rear brakes?
Next steps are to mount up sticker tires and see if the it changes the dynamic of running the same spring rate. I am looking at 255/35/18 front and 275/35/18 rears.
Last edited by Brekyrself; 10-17-11 at 03:37 PM. Reason: added info
10-18-11, 05:19 PM
#38
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Glad you did well at the track
and thanks! That's exactly what I wanted to hear
The Ohlins performed way above my expectations from both corner balance to ride quality over the rumble strips . I have been skeptical about running the same spring rate front and rear (11k) however the car felt completely neutral, even with the thicker 93 rear sway bar. Brake dive and squat upon acceleration were also minimal.
Anyone familiar with RA, I was able to put the power down heavy out of carousel without the tail wanting to come out and play. Turn in was also perfect with the front shocks set at 6 clicks from full stiff and the rear 10 clicks from full stiff. Even when I got anxious around turn 14 getting on the boost early, the car was very balanced with no sudden urge for the tail to swap ends!
The Ohlins very much live up to their name, Road & Track.
. I have been skeptical about running the same spring rate front and rear (11k) however the car felt completely neutral, even with the thicker 93 rear sway bar. Brake dive and squat upon acceleration were also minimal.Anyone familiar with RA, I was able to put the power down heavy out of carousel without the tail wanting to come out and play. Turn in was also perfect with the front shocks set at 6 clicks from full stiff and the rear 10 clicks from full stiff. Even when I got anxious around turn 14 getting on the boost early, the car was very balanced with no sudden urge for the tail to swap ends!
The Ohlins very much live up to their name, Road & Track.
10-20-11, 08:30 AM
#41
Wangan Nasty
Join Date: Apr 2006
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I like to run split friction pads for the FD for hard track use. Depends a bit on suspension and tires as well as the track.
Where and how were you checking rotor temp? That has a big effect on data too.
The EVO is more of a brake challenged car with a more aggressive ABS unit, more front brake load from the factory, and obviously a heavier car with higher grip tires.
300-500 degrees F of brake temperature is still pretty lukewarm, not really hot or anything to worry about.
Where and how were you checking rotor temp? That has a big effect on data too.
The EVO is more of a brake challenged car with a more aggressive ABS unit, more front brake load from the factory, and obviously a heavier car with higher grip tires.
300-500 degrees F of brake temperature is still pretty lukewarm, not really hot or anything to worry about.
01-24-12, 11:12 PM
#42
Now comes the time to buy proper tires for the 2012 season and I could use some input.
Over the last few years I have acquired two additional sets of wheels along with the factory 16's.
18x10 Kinesis K58 (I'll end up selling these)
18x9.5 BBS RGR (Up in the air about keeping or selling, see below)
Stock 16's
I am planning 4-5 HPDE events this season along with 1-2k street miles. My thoughts and could use your input.
Option 1 - Toyo R888's 245/45/16 on the stock 16's
Stupid cheap compared to wide 18's. My concern is heat cycling them while driving on the street essentially wasting them. If I went this route, I'd sell all the 18's and have money left over for water injection and another set of R888 next season! ~$600 mounted.
Option 2 - 285/30/18 Yoko AD08 street tires
$374/ea at tire rack Widest tires I'll be able to fit on the BBS and stock body.
Option 3 - 255/35/18 Yoko AD08, Hankook RS3, or Star Specs
These slightly slimmer tires come in at $500 bucks cheaper for the whole set compared to the 285's. Are 285's going to provide that much more grip to justify $500?!
Thoughts?
Over the last few years I have acquired two additional sets of wheels along with the factory 16's.
18x10 Kinesis K58 (I'll end up selling these)
18x9.5 BBS RGR (Up in the air about keeping or selling, see below)
Stock 16's
I am planning 4-5 HPDE events this season along with 1-2k street miles. My thoughts and could use your input.
Option 1 - Toyo R888's 245/45/16 on the stock 16's
Stupid cheap compared to wide 18's. My concern is heat cycling them while driving on the street essentially wasting them. If I went this route, I'd sell all the 18's and have money left over for water injection and another set of R888 next season! ~$600 mounted.
Option 2 - 285/30/18 Yoko AD08 street tires
$374/ea at tire rack
Widest tires I'll be able to fit on the BBS and stock body.Option 3 - 255/35/18 Yoko AD08, Hankook RS3, or Star Specs
These slightly slimmer tires come in at $500 bucks cheaper for the whole set compared to the 285's. Are 285's going to provide that much more grip to justify $500?!
Thoughts?
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