PVerdieck

I want to get into Autocross.

I was talking to RedRotor1 this weekend in Austin. He recommended the Tri-Point Adjustable front bar (.188 I guess).

From reading a buttload after searching this area, it looks like one can either go all Tri-Point, or get the Widefoot mount and the Tri-Point w/o bronze bushings.

With the Tri-Point, you get good Heim joints, so you don't have to touch them.

How about the Front Bar brackets, or are those replaced by the Widefoot?

If you go Widefoot you get extra clearance. I would want that. Now the Widefoot is a set of "mounts" . Would that still leave one wanting to get, say the Racing Beat lateral brace?

http://reganrotaryracing.tripod.com/tripoint.htm

Otherwise, Koni Yellows were recommended, and I could stick with the stock springs for a while (94 R2). This is also a weekend, etc. car, and my front lip is abused enough already, so I don't want to drop it anymore...

While doing the struts, upgrade the bumper stops with racing type ones from Tri-Point?


That's all I was think of in the 1st pass. I heard that upgrading the rear isn't necessarily required.

Since I won't be tracking it (like Max Cooper), so I don't need to worry about toe links and trailing arms.

reza

don't make any changes yet.
autocross several times, about 5-6 times, then start changing parts.
you need to know what the car is doing at autocross, and your racing/driving style has effect on what you want out of the car too.

then start changing from there. I think the stiffer swaybar only makes the car understeer. You don't want it to understeer too much, since autocross course are tight.

have you autocross?

I started autocross with mostly stock parts on the car, and only recently I started changing parts. I noticed more neutral handling when I change the swaybar mount with Widefoot and swaybar end links with heim joints. I am still with the stock swaybar.

I do it this way too, so that I can feel and see it in score time what my dollar for mods worth.

Reza

PVerdieck

Actually, I had been told that also. Try it a couple of times, and see how it goes.

ARD T2

iTrader: (22)

I totally agree. Work yourself into it. I think it's a better way to build a foundation. Gain some feedback from the car and how you would like to change it's characteristics according to your driving style. Then get mods accordingly. Some people like the predicatability of some understeer, others can ride the edge so it will all come in time.

Rishie

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

Modding a FD for autocross is not really a good idea unless you've got some experience. The FIRST mod(s) you should try when you've got a few events under your belt are RACE TIRES on a set of stock wheels.

A completely stock FD with R compound tires will smoke the most modified FD with even the stickiest street tires given the same driver. Yes they really do make that much difference.

DamonB

I run the Tripoint with bronze bushings and mounts. I agree with all the other guys; don't bother spending your money yet. Go start competing in events and gaining some first hand experience. No need to build the car before driving, you need some experience to even know if you are helping or hurting yourself with suspension changes.

IMO the best bang for the buck mod on the FD is shocks. Good adjustable shocks go a long way towards tailoring the suspension. Then I would pick race tires and then the adjustable front bar.

As for the front bar mounts you are right on about your choices. Only thing you may need to know is that if you are in a stock class, the rule states that you may add aftermarket swaybar mounts but they cannot be tied together which the Racing Beat brace does. The Tripoint braces are legal (that's why Tripoint built them like that) in stock because they don't link to eachother, only the frame. They are also more bulletproff than the Racing Beat part.

Talk redrotor's ear off He can answer all your questions I am sure.

DamonB

In general that's true but anything can be overcome. Once I added the front bar I had to go back to square one on setup, but now the car is certainly better. The real key is the fact that the Tripoint is adjustable and allows me to setup the car for specific courses and tracks.

What the front bar does is not only allow crisper corner entry and transition, but it helps keep the inside rear tire planted on corner exit. That is where the speed really comes from, the power can go down sooner than with the stock bar.

redrotorR1

Thanks, Damon. Giving away all my secrets ...

The rule I try to follow with suspension mods is: one mod at a time. If you throw a bunch of stuff together, you may 1) not like the setup, 2) not fully appreciate the gains of each individual component, 3) learn some bad driving habits from the different setup, or 4) **** yourself stoopid b/c you've spent money on a mod that you didn't need in the first place.

PVerdieck, the best go-faster mod is seat time. Like I suggested this weekend, I think the best thing to do is just go show up and run. When you're running, get experienced guys to ride with you and pick their brains. And then, grab as many rides as you can. You can judge for yourself on certain setups just by riding and seeing how the car transitions and turns in. Try and come to an A&M auto-x event ... you can ride with me and also run your car to kinda get a side-by-side comparison. tamscc.tamu.edu

As far as "butt dyno" equivalents for handling, Damon is right on about the shocks being the most noticeable improvement. Since your car is already either an ASP or SM2 car (has intake and ECU); you can pretty much go hog wild, if you so choose. I'd save race rubber for when you think you feel like your driver skill is good enough to put down competitive times.

PVerdieck

What do you mean by R/Race rubber? Hoosier slicks? I am currently running S02s.

redrotorR1

R-compound tires. Sticky rubber that doesn't last too long. Not slicks, DOT-approved race rubber with "tread". 2 brands that are really nationally used ... that is, competitive: Hoosier A3S03's and Kumho V700's (Victoracers)/Ecsta V700's.

For your first year, I'd recommend staying on street tires. Your S02's are about as good as it gets as street tires go.

PVerdieck

I was looking at tires last night at tirerack. Right now I have about 6K on the S02s. When I get new tires, I was thinking of upgrading to 245/45/16s over the stockers.

Looking at prices, I see

Bridgestone S02 171
Yokohama AVS ES100 91
Kumho ECSTA Supra 712 90

Lets see: 2 S02s or 4 of the others for the same price

DamonB

Stay away from the Supra 712's. I absolutely hated those tires on my FD and got rid of them before they were halfway worn. I run Kumho's race tires and like them, but the 712 is just a poor performance tire IMO.

mike schramm

The best drivers education Ive ever had was autoxing for a year on hard street tires (potenza RE910s). I was a beginner and dident understand the importance of good tires. I thought the tires I had were good enough. First couple of events I was all over the course (now that I think about it, that was alot of fun). After a while, and a couple of driving schools, I learned to control the car with those tires; 4 wheel drift, oversteer and all. The following year I got race rubber and absolutely could not believe the difference. I have since done other mods which have bumped me into ASP but by far the biggest improvement came from tires. Now that I look back at it, Im glad I started stock- hard tires and all.
mike

reza

When I started, I used the old tires that comes with the car.
The previous owner got Yoko A520 in rear and Dunlop SP8000 up front.
That was fun, because they are very slippery, i learnt a lot of controlling spin and oversteer.

Now I have bought Yoko ES100. The tires grip more that those combo. They gave me about 2 sec faster now.
The Yoko ES100 has stiff sidewall, this is good since the tires won't flex.
I ran 35 front and 32 rear, after each run, lower the pressure to that level again. I found this to be the grippiest setting and balance the car well.

Reza

PVerdieck

I assume those running 16s are using 245/45s?

reza

yea 245/45/16 yoko es100

reza