FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

well, I think I'm doing it right but I have questions. my synchros on my 86 na FC are crap in 3rd and 2nd so I have been double clutching/heel-toe downshifting just driving around town and obviously when I beat on my car.

I have been reading and watching vids on the net and a lot of explanations are saying to clutch, go to nuetral, engage the clutch, blip the throttle in nuetral to rev match, clutch and downshift, engage clutch.

my question is that I just hold the clutch, blip the throttle WHILE shifting (doesn't grind at all so pretty much while I move across nuetral I guess), and am in the lower gear when I engage the clutch. no real double clutching I guess as I don't let the clutch engage in nuetral, its still held from the time I come out of the higher gear. is that right and ok? transition is smooth, no jerking of the car or grinding so I don't see a problem. keep in mind that the way I do it takes a fraction of a second as well. I have tried that "true" double clutching method but it feels slower and a little more confusing to me. thanks for any help with the way I'm doing it.

Kentetsu

Double clutching is really not needed with modern transmissions (with synchros). What you are doing is called "Rev Matching", and that is exactly what you should be doing. Just keep practicing until you are smooth.



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lastphaseofthis

iTrader: (8)

it also helps to memorize your rpm vs mph per gear. like you're in 5th and you'll be dropping it down to 4th at 60 mph, try to guess what rpm you will be at before you shift, and then downshift and see how close you were, and remember next time. which gets much more difficult the more throttle responce you get. i have trouble doing this on sport bikes still as i am often over shooting( or just streight up hitting redline) my target rpm for down shifts.

FCNAred

iTrader: (2)

you shouldn't need to "memorize" anything, in fact you shouldn't need to be looking at your tach or speedo. All by feel, it comes with time and practice.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

ya, thanks guys. I pretty much know how to match revs almost perfectly now since I was rev matching and heel-toe downshifting constantly through town. figured I'd get the most out of my na tranny before I swap to t2. I started out looking at the tach and kinda memorizing but now its second nature just like the clutch pedal. I just do it, and get it pretty much perfect every time (+/- 50rpm I think, I don't look at the tach anymore, It just feels perfect and sounds perfect. no sudden weight transfer, its smooth).

one problem I am having is braking and heel-toe downshifting while driving hard. I can nail the shifts pretty good under hard braking but my braking isn't so smooth because I am blipping the throttle I guess. sometimes I brake a little too late and have to do a down shift when starting to turn in and trail brake which kinda throws my whole corner off and makes me angry. I'm working on looking farther ahead and just practicing slowing down properly (seems like that means I'm coming in too hot). should get a feel for it eventually.

oh, and I am using my heel to blip the throttle with the front of my foot on the brake. some people say its backwards but it works. I can't brake smoothly at all for some reason when my heel is doing the braking, I've tried that for a while but just couldn't get the hang of doing it that way.

FCNAred

iTrader: (2)

i've never seen anyone brake with their heel. I read a book like 10 years ago called speed secrets which is now like $10 bucks on amazon. Its a fast read and pretty good lead in for the novice driver going into track days etc.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

What you're actually doing in a modern car is braking with the ball of your foot and big toe, and rolling it over to blip the throttle with the outside of your foot. Your heal should really stay pretty much on the floor, so you can apply some finesse with your lower leg.

It isn't necessary with a modern street trans (as someone said), but if you've got crummy synchros, it will help. I learned to do it at Skip Barber, because race transmissions aren't syncro, and it's part of my routine now so I still do it.

You've got the procedure correct, it just takes a lot of practice to get right. It's hard to practice on the street, or with anything less than threshold braking because your brake pedal won't be in a consistent position. Once you get it down, you'll be able to do it quickly and not loose any time under braking.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

ya, I heard the method of using like half your foot to blip the throttle while leaving your heel on the floor but I can't do that with the way my pedals are I guess. they are just stock but they are pretty far away from each other and the difference in height when braking hard makes it hard for me but I will try that out again too. I don't get a lot of regular track duty in and what I do get is usually drifting, it will take a while for my to get road racing braking down to an art. I'd like to attend a racing school but can't afford it. I can't really afford to go to events most of the time.lol. I am a parking lot drifter and might be getting into auto x provided I get a helmet as my tech requires a snell 2005 now which I don't have. eventually I would love to do some road racing though, I need to move closer to race tracks to make it practical.

over the long term, rev matching will let your synchros last longer and even your clutch to a lesser extent. I have to do it going down into 3rd and 2nd or I get a nasty grind and it doesn't even feel like I have synchros in there at all.lol. unless I downshift while below 1500 rpms. most modern transmissions you don't really have to worry about but apparently from what I hear and witnessed, na FC transmission synchros are made of glass. I know the t2 trannys are stronger and I will be swapping as I have one but need the rear end still. eventually turbo swapping (probably next years tax refund, need to rebuild the t2 I have provided I don't feel like selling the coilovers I just bought for something better for auto x. I have powered by max and have heard they are only good for drifting and not really anything else due to their damper design and adjustability).

madbouncy

You'd be amazed how much better at driving you can get by driving a not so good car. I know when my car has trouble running I have to do crazy stuff with the pedals to keep it going and the more you can learn on the street the better. When I first started learning toe-heel stuff it all seemed to be a 50/50 split between the side of your foot and the heel. Basically just comes down to peddles and your actual foot, if I use my heel it feels like I'm drastically overexagerating the movement where as using the side of my heel is very quick and easy. Keep rev matching into first, it's generally the hardest gear to get back into and usually makes you really rev match perfect to get it.

habu2

This is for an FD but I'm sure you could come up with something similar: Heel/Toe pedal extension for FD

I'd link an image but it's HUGE...

gawdodirt

Well, no, it isn't correct. But if it helps,or you think it helps, then it's all good!

Carl

gawdodirt

You sound like you have the idea. You can't brake in a turn. It just doesn't work with the math.

I've driven a lot of cars and for some reason, the FC pedals , in the stock locations are pretty damn comfortable in their positioning. I drive lots of Audis now, and there is a lacking of the heel/toe location. At least Mazda had some driver input for the layout.

DG

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

no, I know how to turn properly. sometimes I just misjudge the distance and don't straight line brake enough/far enough back so I still need to downshift and slow down heading into my trail braking. not all the time, just sometimes. I just need more seat time to get used to the car more at its limits in a road racing situation.

I'm going to try re learning how I heel toe to the "proper" technique. mine works and feels plenty fast to me but maybe there is something to be gained from the correct way. I'm a short guy at 5'4" and wear a size 8 so maybe my feet just aren't wide enough.lol jk. thanks for all the help guys.

remydrm

I'm not the fastest guy by any means... just thought I'd share my 2cents....

I've noticed that most folks do one of two things:

1) Brake too early and are forced to either coast to the turn point or re-input throttle.

2) Brake too lightly in fear of lock-up or the "unsettled" feeling of the car.


Along with your rev-matching and heal/toe movement, maybe try to commit more to your braking.. meaning really stand on the pedal and scrub as much of the speed as needed until just before steering input.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

it's probably more due to my seat time drifting, where you need more speed up until the corner so you can swing out. lol, just gotta remember not to be setting up for drift when I am road racing. I know I need to work on my braking points mostly as I brake very hard, just not quite as smooth as I would like either. I don't have abs either so I know the brake limit before they lock mostly. I can definitely feel the point in braking near the point of lock so I think I am doing the most I can. I just have stock 4 piston fronts and the stock rears on stock suspension right now. I am going to have to relearn the car when I put my coilovers, dtss elims, and new diff mount/snubber on.