Cusco Zero 2e vs Tein Flex vs Tein SS
03-05-08, 12:32 AM
#1
Derwin
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Cusco Zero 2e vs Tein Flex vs Tein SS
I just wanted to discuss a little the differences between these coilovers.
So far from what I have read, the Cusco Zero 2e's should be top notch FD street coilovers. They have the right springs rates, their shocks come from a reputed manufacturer (Showa) and they have great anti-corrosion finish. However, they are more expensive and harder to come by than the comparable Tein Flex's.
Now after looking at the new specs on these I see that they have more adjustement's single adjustable 16 settings vs 5 on the Cusco and that they have the Cusco's "fully threaded" design which permits lowering the vehicule without affecting travel. As we know lowering the car and reducing travel induces something called "bottoming out".
The last monkey in this party is the Tein SS, I would never in a million years have considered the Tein SS, but through Howard Colemans recommendation it with modified spring rates of course has become my front runner!
The problem here is that the Flex is so tempting, however I have been told that the Camber plate is not a usefull feature for the Fd's suspension geometry.
The SS doesn't come with this feature, yet it doesn't seem to come with any form of upper mount. On the other hand the Zero 2-e is supposed to come with new upper mounts like OEM type. I have heard that these are 75$ a pop so 300$ for the whole set!!!! When that is factored into the equations the Tien SS are ~1250+shipping, the Tein Flex's are the same price and the Cusco's are a few hundred dollars more.
I am completely confused which way to go and have been debating this for the last year and a half, any help or enlightenment would be appreciated, unless I win the lotto tommorow and will have Quantum's comming by plane the next day ahah.
So far from what I have read, the Cusco Zero 2e's should be top notch FD street coilovers. They have the right springs rates, their shocks come from a reputed manufacturer (Showa) and they have great anti-corrosion finish. However, they are more expensive and harder to come by than the comparable Tein Flex's.
Now after looking at the new specs on these I see that they have more adjustement's single adjustable 16 settings vs 5 on the Cusco and that they have the Cusco's "fully threaded" design which permits lowering the vehicule without affecting travel. As we know lowering the car and reducing travel induces something called "bottoming out".
The last monkey in this party is the Tein SS, I would never in a million years have considered the Tein SS, but through Howard Colemans recommendation it with modified spring rates of course has become my front runner!
The problem here is that the Flex is so tempting, however I have been told that the Camber plate is not a usefull feature for the Fd's suspension geometry.
The SS doesn't come with this feature, yet it doesn't seem to come with any form of upper mount. On the other hand the Zero 2-e is supposed to come with new upper mounts like OEM type. I have heard that these are 75$ a pop so 300$ for the whole set!!!! When that is factored into the equations the Tien SS are ~1250+shipping, the Tein Flex's are the same price and the Cusco's are a few hundred dollars more.
I am completely confused which way to go and have been debating this for the last year and a half, any help or enlightenment would be appreciated, unless I win the lotto tommorow and will have Quantum's comming by plane the next day ahah.
03-05-08, 01:10 AM
#2
Lives on the Forum
The Flex won't have camber plates, since as you said, they'd be useless. They will come with "pillowball" upper mounts. Basically a solid piece of aluminum with a spherical bearing in the middle. They'll trasmit more noise and vibration to the chassis, but has less flex than the stock upper mounts, which do damp out some of the noise and vibration. On the SS you'd use the stock upper mounts. You most likely can run the stock upper mounts on either of the other two as well.
Don't get sucked into thinking that 16 clicks means it has more adjustment range. Some coilovers have lots of clicks, but they hardly do anything at all, whereas others have few, but there's huge differences. The Flex do have a good range of adjustability though.
Don't get sucked into thinking that 16 clicks means it has more adjustment range. Some coilovers have lots of clicks, but they hardly do anything at all, whereas others have few, but there's huge differences. The Flex do have a good range of adjustability though.
03-05-08, 11:26 AM
#3
Derwin
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Weirdly enough I have seen Tein Flex's on an FD, I think he bougt them in Dec 07 and they had camber plates. What I meant to type was I have heard that pillowball upper mounts are not suitable for the FD's suspension geometry.
03-05-08, 12:29 PM
#4
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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"They have the right springs rates"
congratulations on focusing on issue 1
"Cusco's "fully threaded" design which permits lowering the vehicle without affecting travel. As we know lowering the car and reducing travel induces something called "bottoming out"."
since Tein coil overs have enough stroke at 25 inches of ride height they don't need this feature.
"16 settings vs 5 on the Cusco"
Black91 n/a is exactly correct as to the number of clicks not being necessarily representative of the adj range. however in the case of the Tein product i have dynoed them extensively on my shock dyno and they offer a linear range of adj from very soft to very hard.
"I would never in a million years have considered the Tein SS"
why??????? Tein is a front line coil over MFR. the reason the SS makes the most sense is that it offers the OEM upper insulating mount. the upper mount has NOTHING, repeat NOTHING to do w suspension geometry. a pillowball mount merely replaces the insulator w steel. so the whole car sits on steel and you get NVH. other than that the SS has the same shock valving as the Flex. it is also cheaper.
"Camber plate is not a useful feature for the Fd's suspension geometry"
camber plates are used w a Macpherson strut suspension which we definitely don't have. the FD uses double A arms. camber adjusts by moving the lower A arm.
"SS doesn't come with this feature, yet it doesn't seem to come with any form of upper mount."
you use the OEM upper mount.
"pillowball upper mounts are not suitable for the FD's suspension geometry."
they work fine... however they deliver no benefit and add NVH.
hc
congratulations on focusing on issue 1
"Cusco's "fully threaded" design which permits lowering the vehicle without affecting travel. As we know lowering the car and reducing travel induces something called "bottoming out"."
since Tein coil overs have enough stroke at 25 inches of ride height they don't need this feature.
"16 settings vs 5 on the Cusco"
Black91 n/a is exactly correct as to the number of clicks not being necessarily representative of the adj range. however in the case of the Tein product i have dynoed them extensively on my shock dyno and they offer a linear range of adj from very soft to very hard.
"I would never in a million years have considered the Tein SS"
why??????? Tein is a front line coil over MFR. the reason the SS makes the most sense is that it offers the OEM upper insulating mount. the upper mount has NOTHING, repeat NOTHING to do w suspension geometry. a pillowball mount merely replaces the insulator w steel. so the whole car sits on steel and you get NVH. other than that the SS has the same shock valving as the Flex. it is also cheaper.
"Camber plate is not a useful feature for the Fd's suspension geometry"
camber plates are used w a Macpherson strut suspension which we definitely don't have. the FD uses double A arms. camber adjusts by moving the lower A arm.
"SS doesn't come with this feature, yet it doesn't seem to come with any form of upper mount."
you use the OEM upper mount.
"pillowball upper mounts are not suitable for the FD's suspension geometry."
they work fine... however they deliver no benefit and add NVH.
hc
03-05-08, 12:41 PM
#5
My only comment for you on the OE upper mount is that, over time, they sag/compress/dry out and will change your height, perhaps unevenly, and sometimes creak etc.
The sound deadening aspect is one thing—my ground control "solid" upper mounts have a small rubber insulator that performs the same function as the OE upper, bit is made for 2.5" springs and is less likely to deform over time.
The sound deadening aspect is one thing—my ground control "solid" upper mounts have a small rubber insulator that performs the same function as the OE upper, bit is made for 2.5" springs and is less likely to deform over time.
03-05-08, 02:27 PM
#6
Derwin
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Thanks for all the responses.
I am going to have to check what the price is on the rubber OEM Upper mounts. My car currently bounces un and down all the time which is very annoying on KYB replacement shocks with Eibach springs.
If the damned Tein SS's came from the factory with a 10/8 spring rate I would be on it in an instance.
I am going to have to check what the price is on the rubber OEM Upper mounts. My car currently bounces un and down all the time which is very annoying on KYB replacement shocks with Eibach springs.
If the damned Tein SS's came from the factory with a 10/8 spring rate I would be on it in an instance.
03-05-08, 02:54 PM
#7
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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the OEM upper mounts are, i don't really know, half an inch thick? as long as the spring is properly indexed into the mount they shouldn't deform. if they do, it might be 1/4 inch. no big deal.
the GC upper mount, as you describe it, sounds great. the huge plus is using the standard racing spring (2.5 i d). you can buy rates on this spring in 25 pound increments. a big plus for a more technically inclined setup. i used GC collars in one iteration of my racecar suspension. they work well.
back to post 6... your car bounces all the time? it isn't the Eibach ProKit springs.... at a +33% rate they work well. my wife runs them on her FD and i highly recommend them. sounds like your shocks. how many clicks are there and where are they adjusted? what is your tire pressure?
hc
the GC upper mount, as you describe it, sounds great. the huge plus is using the standard racing spring (2.5 i d). you can buy rates on this spring in 25 pound increments. a big plus for a more technically inclined setup. i used GC collars in one iteration of my racecar suspension. they work well.
back to post 6... your car bounces all the time? it isn't the Eibach ProKit springs.... at a +33% rate they work well. my wife runs them on her FD and i highly recommend them. sounds like your shocks. how many clicks are there and where are they adjusted? what is your tire pressure?
hc
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09-19-11, 08:19 PM
#10
I understand this thread was posted 3 years ago, but I am still in debate between the SS and the Flex
I've been on the Flexs on an FC, and it was the most comfortable ride I've ever had.
I hear the SS are more stiff, so may not be as suitable for daily driving.
I have no intention to ever have my car hit the track, however I plan to make my car track ready in terms of power and suspension, yet keep it on the streets. (in a sense, use the street as my track, yet not do anything stupid)
Should I go with the Flex over the SS?
I want to have a comfortable ride, yet I want it to be a dream in the corners.
Thanks
I've been on the Flexs on an FC, and it was the most comfortable ride I've ever had.
I hear the SS are more stiff, so may not be as suitable for daily driving.
I have no intention to ever have my car hit the track, however I plan to make my car track ready in terms of power and suspension, yet keep it on the streets. (in a sense, use the street as my track, yet not do anything stupid)
Should I go with the Flex over the SS?
I want to have a comfortable ride, yet I want it to be a dream in the corners.
Thanks
09-21-11, 12:12 PM
#12
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FD3S Boost you're just comparing monotube to twin tube basically. Take a look at this page and you can make an informed decision:
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html
There's top quality twin tube shocks like KW V3, and there's top quality monotube too. There's nothing saying one is inherently better. You'll see from that page that a simple twin tube Koni Sport shock can sometimes outperform a more expensive fully adjustable coilover. Learning how to read the shock dyno plots will really tell you so much more about how the suspension performs than listening to opinions on an Internet forum. In my experience it's unreliable because in terms of performance "It handles like it's on rails!" doesn't mean much coming from someone who daily drives an SUV, and "The ride is terrible!" doesn't mean much coming from someone who daily drives a Cadillac. But you can judge both of these from a shock dyno plot and compare them with things that can actually be measured.
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html
There's top quality twin tube shocks like KW V3, and there's top quality monotube too. There's nothing saying one is inherently better. You'll see from that page that a simple twin tube Koni Sport shock can sometimes outperform a more expensive fully adjustable coilover. Learning how to read the shock dyno plots will really tell you so much more about how the suspension performs than listening to opinions on an Internet forum. In my experience it's unreliable because in terms of performance "It handles like it's on rails!" doesn't mean much coming from someone who daily drives an SUV, and "The ride is terrible!" doesn't mean much coming from someone who daily drives a Cadillac. But you can judge both of these from a shock dyno plot and compare them with things that can actually be measured.
09-21-11, 09:29 PM
#13
FD3S Boost you're just comparing monotube to twin tube basically. Take a look at this page and you can make an informed decision:
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html
There's top quality twin tube shocks like KW V3, and there's top quality monotube too. There's nothing saying one is inherently better. You'll see from that page that a simple twin tube Koni Sport shock can sometimes outperform a more expensive fully adjustable coilover. Learning how to read the shock dyno plots will really tell you so much more about how the suspension performs than listening to opinions on an Internet forum. In my experience it's unreliable because in terms of performance "It handles like it's on rails!" doesn't mean much coming from someone who daily drives an SUV, and "The ride is terrible!" doesn't mean much coming from someone who daily drives a Cadillac. But you can judge both of these from a shock dyno plot and compare them with things that can actually be measured.
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html
There's top quality twin tube shocks like KW V3, and there's top quality monotube too. There's nothing saying one is inherently better. You'll see from that page that a simple twin tube Koni Sport shock can sometimes outperform a more expensive fully adjustable coilover. Learning how to read the shock dyno plots will really tell you so much more about how the suspension performs than listening to opinions on an Internet forum. In my experience it's unreliable because in terms of performance "It handles like it's on rails!" doesn't mean much coming from someone who daily drives an SUV, and "The ride is terrible!" doesn't mean much coming from someone who daily drives a Cadillac. But you can judge both of these from a shock dyno plot and compare them with things that can actually be measured.
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