Black91n/a

I will be getting some 17x8's for my car and I'll need some new rubber for the spring. I'll tell you a bit about what I use the car for and what I'm looking for so you can best advise me. I use the car as my daily driver, I do enjoy spirited driving, and I'll go to driving schools 1-2 times a year. I can use a summer only tire as I have snow tires.

I'm looking for low cost (I won't go any higher in cost than Yokohama AVS ES100's), long life (I'd like about a 280-340 UTQG tread life), and grip (I've only ever driven on all season tires, so even if the tires aren't "the best", I'll probably still think they're pretty good).

I can't afford expensive tires and I can't afford to replace them very often, so this limits my options. I've done some research and have found a few tires that fit the requirements and are available in the 225-45-17 size that I want. They are (in approximate price list):

Ventus HII H405 (low price, 340 tread life)
Khumo Ecsta 711 (low price, mixed reviews)
Khumo Ecsta Supra 712 (low price, mixed reviews)
Ventus Sport K104 (low price, 280 tread wear)
Falken Fk-451 (2nd highest price, 280 tread life)
Yokohama AVS ES100 (highest price, 280 tread life)

Right now I'm leaning towards the H405's based on cost and projected life. I haven't been able to find any helpful reviews of them online, so anyone experience with them, please let me know.

If anyone has experience with these tires, or some other tire that might be better, I'd greatly appreciate any input.

SpeedKing

iTrader: (4)

Out of your choices, the Yoko AVS ES100s.

BTW, have you considered Falken Azenis? Good low-cost tire.

EL PAALO

The ES100 is unproven for tread life, imho.
I'd say go with the Kumho 712 if you really need it to last - I think they're harder than the ES100, perform almost as well, and are likely to last longer.

maxcooper

The Falken Azenis Sports have the best price/performance ratio I have ever seen. However, while they are cheap, they also wear quickly. But they are so wonderfully sticky. I love mine. Still, I don't think those meet the treadlife requirements from Black91n/a. They also have not-so-great wet weather traction, and I bet they would suck in the snow.

Another option you might wish to cosider is the Sumitomo HTR Z on special at TireRack.com in your size for $86 each. I have never tried these tires, but I have seen a few positive comments about them over the past few years.

-Max

Black91n/a

No, the Azenis Sports and the Sumitomo's don't meet my criteria, as they'll wear out way too fast for my wallet. I'd be a little wary buying 712's because I've heard some really bad things about their performance. Is this just when compared to much stickier tires? Also snow traction isn't an issue as I'll keep my snow tires on my 15's for winters. Also does anyone have any personal experience with the H405's as they'd be about $300 Canadian cheaper for a full set than ES100's. Anyone else have an opinion they'd like to share?

RETed

Tire hardness (i.e. tire wear index) and (high) performance is typically inversely proportional.  The harder the tire, the crappier the performance...usually.

You can't expect to have good tire longevity and good performance unless we're talking serious compromise here.

I wouldn't touch anything higher than a 250AA treadwear index if we're talking about serious performance here.



-Ted

anobii

As far as price is concerned I hear a little bit about people using wanli's, especially for drifting, but I have never used them so I can neither yeah or neigh there performance. But as for price on a Z rated tire there the best I've seen, around 200 bucks for your size, but that's not to say you won't get picked on for having wanli's

I will say I got a set of Nitto Neo gen's and they are pretty wicked cool, good traction and thick sidewalls. Treadwear is 280. Discount tire is the place to go for them, $350 for 215 40 17's but there again not to many people are fond of nitto tires. Just a thought,

E

Black91n/a

I know this already, but sometimes some tires wear quickly and have bad traction, when others have good traction and last a "long" time. I'm mostly hoping to get the best compromise of performance wear and price available. I'm willing to spend the money to get good tires, but I need to know that its money well spent.

I'll let someone else try those, I'm not sure I'd trust a tire from a brand new Chinese manufacturer. I'm not that short on cash. Please keep those opinions coming.

SleepR1

You'd can't do better than Yokohama ES100s. They're available in many sizes, and relatively affordable. Performance and wear are mutually exclusive. Gotta pay to play. That's just life with a performance car. If you have to watch out for gas mileage and tire wear, then you can't afford to have a sports car. This is not an indictment on your financial status. It's just the way it is with owning a sports car.

maxcooper

Rotations and a wear-optimized alignment setup might help prolong the life of your tires.

I seem to remember wearing out the insides of the rear tires on my FC being a problem. I think I remember seeing that Mazdatrix sells something to allow camber adjustments on the rear (which seems to have a lot of neg camber as the springs sag).

Perhaps you could get some not-so-high-tread-life-rated tires and manage their wear with alignment settings and frequent tire rotations. Even wear and good stick are sometimes in conflict with regard to suspension settings (at least on a street car where you aren't pushing it most of the time), but it seems like you could have more stick and the same wear with this plan than you would get from harder tires and a faster-wearing alignment setup.

I'm interested to hear what others think about this approach -- which is stickier; 1) sticky tires & wear-optimized alignment OR 2) hard tires & aggressive alignment?

-Max

DamonB

Grip will always beat alignment. Witness what happens when the roads get even slightly sandy or wet for instance; alignment doesn't help. Alignment can optimize a tire's grip, but the grip from the tire has to exist in the first place.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

They are an example of what happens when people with no taste have disposable income...

Black91n/a

I've heard good things about these and of the tires on my list I get the impression that they have the best performance, so I'm not expecting the others to be any better, what I'd mainly want is something that's 90% of what they are for 80% of the price.

Yeah, I know (sigh), but being of Scottish ancestry I have a natural reluctance to spending money, that's why I'm asking around about these cheaper ones.

I'm still curious about the H405's as I haven't been able to find any helpful reviews of them from a performance standpoint.

maxcooper

Think of it this way -- lousy tires would waste your investment in the rest of the car.

-Max

artowar

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm, either this comment was meant for the "Spreewells" thread, or ptrhahn really hates how these tires look...

doncojones

Out of the group mentioned the ES100 is definitely the best performance tire. It's not as sticky as the upper eschelon of performance tires but then again it's not nearly as expensive either. If you want something cheaper than the ES100 then check out the Sumitomo HTR Z II.

If you have snow tires I wouldn't be overly concerned about the tread life of the summer tires since they're not even going to be on the car year-round. Tire wear ratings really aren't even useful when comparing tires from different manufacturers. Basically the only standard within the system that exists is a 200 treadwear tire lasts for a standardized amount of time under standardized conditions. But one manufacturer's 280 treadwear rating could be totally different from another manufacturer's. The manufacturers are only responsible for using the same scale on their entire line. So, a Bridgestone tire with a 340 rating will last longer than another Bridgestone tire with a 280 rating, but for all you know they could both wear out quicker than a Goodyear tire with a 220 rating.

Houdini

iTrader: (3)

stay away from the 712s, they really suck on grip. I don't like the ES100s that I had. The tread life is not as great as they say. Azenis is a sticky tire but poor on wear. Bang for the buck, I'd try the Kumho Ecsta MX

adam c

iTrader: (2)

I didn't like the ES100's I had. In fact, I sent them back to the tire rack for a refund. If you can afford a few $ more for the Bridgestone 750, you should do it.

Black91n/a

Just to reiterate, I'm not looking for all out, *****-to-the-walls uncompromised performance tires. I'll need the tires to wear decently, so that means no Kumho Ecxta MX's for me. I've been doing some more research and I've pretty much discarded the Idea of getting 712's or 711's from what I've read the price doesn't make up for the deficiencies enough to make it worth my while. I think I'll leave the H405's too, as I can't find anything on them, so I'd have no idea what I'd be getting into. I extremely positive reviews on the Falken FK-451, and there seemed to be no one putting them down. Does anyone here have any experience with them?

SAiamNE

You should maybe take a look at these..
http://www.1010tires.com/tirereviews...=Ziex+ZE%2D512

They got great reviews, and seem reasonably cheap.

mad_7tist

nitto

Black91n/a

I'm still looking for first hand experiance with the FK-451. I'd think that they'd be a good choice as I've read many good things about them. Sport Auto ranked high performance tires in a test in 2000 as follows: Dunlop SP 9000, Falken FK-451, Goodyear Eagle F1, Michelin Pilot Sport, Toyo T1-S, Pirelli P 7000, Uniroyal RTT 2, and the Yokohama AVS Sport. Also Modified Mag thought they were worthy of going on their project STi. I'd still like to hear peoples oppinions here though.

JStewart

what tire did you go with?

bkapold@aol.com

The MX's or Azenis for me.. never owned any of them... I did have some FK 451's and they rocked for the cash.. I go through wheels and tires pretty fast...Once the tires were out I sell the wheels without the tires..

Tires are the most important thing on a car so I don't cut corners there.... Bridge's, Pliots for the street...and Hoosiers on the track......

POM HB

Get the best tire you can...don't worry about the life of them. And, then start collecting money for the net set and you'll be all good.