autox today
03-17-02, 08:56 PM
#1
EIT
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autox today
today was my first autox in the 7 and it seemed to understeer a lil bit to much in slow corners. I got make the back end rotate by adding power but I really would like more neutral of a car. I don't do any highspeed time trials so I don't need to worry about being unstable at really fast speeds or what not. Basically what all do I need to do? Bigger rear sway maybe drop the front sway? I really don't know anything I'm coming from an integra gsr which is completely different driving wise in autox from the rx7
03-19-02, 09:31 AM
#4
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first off, if you're racing in stock class, you can upgrade the struts, front sway bar, and tires. i personally have raced with the GAB Super R's, and they are great auto-x struts ... unfortunately they are no longer available in the states (although i am selling mine ... i installed some Koni's). most of the other FD's in our club run on koni yellows with Hoosier competition tires. I like the Koni's better 'cuz they're softer (which correlates to more grip). Hoosiers are kinda expensive ...
at this point, i wouldn't mess with the sway bars until you've got your alignment set the way you like it. one of the remarkable things about the FD is the amount of adjustability you have in its stock form. the OEM camber kit allows up to 2 degrees of camber adjustment. i run -1.3 degrees camber all around; +6.0 degrees caster; 1/16" toe out on the fronts; and 1/16" toe in on the rears. the more negative camber you have, the more tire tread you are exposed to the pavement ... but, your tires will wear down faster. toe out on the fronts will help the turn in; the toe in on the rears helps combat oversteer. the other FD's in our club run with more toe out on the fronts (1/8" toe out), and more negative camber (-1.5 to -1.8 degrees) ... which is good for auto-x, but not very good for everyday driveability. since i still put a lot of highway miles on my FD, i back off on those adjustments.
try a midrange setting and see how you like the difference. then adjust based on your preferences. i'm not a top 10 time finisher yet ... but that's solely a function of my position through each gate.
at this point, i wouldn't mess with the sway bars until you've got your alignment set the way you like it. one of the remarkable things about the FD is the amount of adjustability you have in its stock form. the OEM camber kit allows up to 2 degrees of camber adjustment. i run -1.3 degrees camber all around; +6.0 degrees caster; 1/16" toe out on the fronts; and 1/16" toe in on the rears. the more negative camber you have, the more tire tread you are exposed to the pavement ... but, your tires will wear down faster. toe out on the fronts will help the turn in; the toe in on the rears helps combat oversteer. the other FD's in our club run with more toe out on the fronts (1/8" toe out), and more negative camber (-1.5 to -1.8 degrees) ... which is good for auto-x, but not very good for everyday driveability. since i still put a lot of highway miles on my FD, i back off on those adjustments.
try a midrange setting and see how you like the difference. then adjust based on your preferences. i'm not a top 10 time finisher yet ... but that's solely a function of my position through each gate.
03-19-02, 09:39 AM
#5
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while i'm at it ...
Here's some tips about driving technique from Andy Hollis ...he's a Evolution school driving instructor and a Solo II national champ.
ANDY'S TOP TEN AUTOX DRIVING TIPS
[Just got back from a weekend of teaching Evolution schools and thought I'd share some stuff that I must have said a thousand times. Sure beats talking about rules!]
1) Position first, then speed. Positioning the car perfectly is more important than trying to attain the highest potential speed. For example,
you will drop more time by correctly positioning the car nearer to slalom cones than you will by adding 1 or 2 MPH in speed. Same with sweepers
(tight line). Same with 90-degree turns (use all of the track). Also, position is a prerequisite for speed. If you are not in the correct
place, you will not be able go faster. Or at least not for very long!
>
2) Turn earlier...and less. To go faster, the arc you are running must be bigger. A bigger arc requires less steering. To make a bigger arc that
is centered in the same place, the arc must start sooner (turn earlier).
>
3) Brake earlier...and less. Waiting until the last possible second approaching a turn and then dropping anchor at precisely the correct place so that the desired entry speed is reached exactly as you come to the turn-in point is quite difficult to execute consistently. Especially when you consider that you get no practice runs on the course, and the surface changes on every run, and you aren't likely to be in exactly the same position with the same approach speed on every run, etc. Better to start braking a little earlier to give some margin of error. And by braking less you can either add or subtract braking effort as you close in on the turn-in
point. This will make you consistent and smooth.
>
4) Lift early instead of braking later. Continuing with the philosophy of #3, when you need to reduce speed only a moderate amount, try an early lift of the throttle instead of a later push of the brake. This is less upsetting to the car, is easier to do and thus more consistent, and allows for more precise placement entering the maneuver (remember #1 above).
>
5) Easier to add speed in a turn than to get rid of it. If you are under the limit, a slight push of the right foot will get you more speed with no
additional side effects. On the other hand, if you are too fast and the tires have begun slipping, you can only reduce throttle and wait until the tires turn enough of that excess energy into smoke and heat. Don't use your tires as brakes!
>
6) Use your right foot to modulate car position in constant radius turns, not the steering wheel. In a steady state turn, once you have established
the correct steering input to maintain that arc, lifting the throttle slightly will let the car tuck in closer to the inside cones. Conversely,
slightly increasing the throttle will push the car out a bit farther to avoid inside cones. It is much easier to make small corrections in position
with slight variations in the tires' slip angle (that's what you are doing with the throttle) than with the steering wheel.
>
> 7) Unwind the wheel, then add power. If the car is using all of the tire's tractive capacity to corner, there is none left for additional
acceleration. At corner exit, as you unwind the wheel, you make some available. If you do not unwind the wheel, the tire will start to slide and the car will push out (see #6 above).
>
8) Attack the back. For slaloms (also applicable to most offsets), getting close to the cones is critical for quick times (see #1). To get close, we must move the car less, which means bigger arcs. Bigger arcs come from less steering and require earlier turning (see #2). Now for the fun part...
> When you go by a slalom cone and start turning the steering wheel back the other way, when does the car start to actually change direction? Answer:
> When the wheel crosses the center point (Not when you first start turning back!) How long does that take? If you are smooth, it takes .25 - .5 seconds. Now, how long is a typical person's reaction time?
Answer:
about .5 seconds. Finally, how long does it take to go between slalom cones?
Answer: Typically on the order of 1 second. Given all of that, your brain must make the decision to begin turning the steering wheel back the other way just *before* you go by the previous cone!!
>
> Since this is a mental issue, a good visualization technique to get used to this is to think about trying to run over the back side of each slalom cone with the inside rear tire of the car. To hit it with the rear tire (and not the front), the car must be arcing well before the cone and the arc must be> shallow. Attack the back!
>
9) Hands follow the eyes, car follows the hands. 'Nuf said.
>
10) Scan ahead, don't stare. Keep the eyes moving. Looking ahead does not mean staring ahead. Your eyes must be constantly moving forward and back, and sometimes left and right. Glance forward, glance back. Your brain
can only operate on the information you give it.
>
> Bonus Tip: Don't forget the stuff in between the marked maneuvers! Too often we think of a course as series of discrete maneuvers. There is typically more to be gained or lost in the areas that are in between. Pay special attention the places where there are no cones.
Enjoy!!
ANDY'S TOP TEN AUTOX DRIVING TIPS
[Just got back from a weekend of teaching Evolution schools and thought I'd share some stuff that I must have said a thousand times. Sure beats talking about rules!]
1) Position first, then speed. Positioning the car perfectly is more important than trying to attain the highest potential speed. For example,
you will drop more time by correctly positioning the car nearer to slalom cones than you will by adding 1 or 2 MPH in speed. Same with sweepers
(tight line). Same with 90-degree turns (use all of the track). Also, position is a prerequisite for speed. If you are not in the correct
place, you will not be able go faster. Or at least not for very long!
>
2) Turn earlier...and less. To go faster, the arc you are running must be bigger. A bigger arc requires less steering. To make a bigger arc that
is centered in the same place, the arc must start sooner (turn earlier).
>
3) Brake earlier...and less. Waiting until the last possible second approaching a turn and then dropping anchor at precisely the correct place so that the desired entry speed is reached exactly as you come to the turn-in point is quite difficult to execute consistently. Especially when you consider that you get no practice runs on the course, and the surface changes on every run, and you aren't likely to be in exactly the same position with the same approach speed on every run, etc. Better to start braking a little earlier to give some margin of error. And by braking less you can either add or subtract braking effort as you close in on the turn-in
point. This will make you consistent and smooth.
>
4) Lift early instead of braking later. Continuing with the philosophy of #3, when you need to reduce speed only a moderate amount, try an early lift of the throttle instead of a later push of the brake. This is less upsetting to the car, is easier to do and thus more consistent, and allows for more precise placement entering the maneuver (remember #1 above).
>
5) Easier to add speed in a turn than to get rid of it. If you are under the limit, a slight push of the right foot will get you more speed with no
additional side effects. On the other hand, if you are too fast and the tires have begun slipping, you can only reduce throttle and wait until the tires turn enough of that excess energy into smoke and heat. Don't use your tires as brakes!
>
6) Use your right foot to modulate car position in constant radius turns, not the steering wheel. In a steady state turn, once you have established
the correct steering input to maintain that arc, lifting the throttle slightly will let the car tuck in closer to the inside cones. Conversely,
slightly increasing the throttle will push the car out a bit farther to avoid inside cones. It is much easier to make small corrections in position
with slight variations in the tires' slip angle (that's what you are doing with the throttle) than with the steering wheel.
>
> 7) Unwind the wheel, then add power. If the car is using all of the tire's tractive capacity to corner, there is none left for additional
acceleration. At corner exit, as you unwind the wheel, you make some available. If you do not unwind the wheel, the tire will start to slide and the car will push out (see #6 above).
>
8) Attack the back. For slaloms (also applicable to most offsets), getting close to the cones is critical for quick times (see #1). To get close, we must move the car less, which means bigger arcs. Bigger arcs come from less steering and require earlier turning (see #2). Now for the fun part...
> When you go by a slalom cone and start turning the steering wheel back the other way, when does the car start to actually change direction? Answer:
> When the wheel crosses the center point (Not when you first start turning back!) How long does that take? If you are smooth, it takes .25 - .5 seconds. Now, how long is a typical person's reaction time?
Answer:
about .5 seconds. Finally, how long does it take to go between slalom cones?
Answer: Typically on the order of 1 second. Given all of that, your brain must make the decision to begin turning the steering wheel back the other way just *before* you go by the previous cone!!
>
> Since this is a mental issue, a good visualization technique to get used to this is to think about trying to run over the back side of each slalom cone with the inside rear tire of the car. To hit it with the rear tire (and not the front), the car must be arcing well before the cone and the arc must be> shallow. Attack the back!
>
9) Hands follow the eyes, car follows the hands. 'Nuf said.
>
10) Scan ahead, don't stare. Keep the eyes moving. Looking ahead does not mean staring ahead. Your eyes must be constantly moving forward and back, and sometimes left and right. Glance forward, glance back. Your brain
can only operate on the information you give it.
>
> Bonus Tip: Don't forget the stuff in between the marked maneuvers! Too often we think of a course as series of discrete maneuvers. There is typically more to be gained or lost in the areas that are in between. Pay special attention the places where there are no cones.
Enjoy!!
03-19-02, 10:03 AM
#6
Lives on the Forum
I took a class with Andy Hollis and Erik Strelnieks last year; needless to say I learned a lot. This year I took Phase II with Rob Faulkner and he finally convinced me of Hollis' Point number 3.
Rob thought I was doing well but said I could be better on one particular entry. After two runs late in the day of me doing what I thought was required he just told me to keep my line but brake 20 feet earlier than I thought I should; I have the habit of the late-braker-road-racer-philosophy. After doing this the next section was quicker as I was able to pick up the throttle immediately after turn in rather than gathering up the car and then adding speed.
It was a big help at my first event with the new front sway bar this past weekend. I was timid with the car but was able to make my times tumble by the third run by concentrating more on what I had been taught rather than trying to push the car to 100%. I think with another run I could have knocked another .5 sec off, but as it was I knocked off 3 secs from my first.
All three of these guys are National champs several times over. The Evolution schools are the cheapest mods you will ever make.
Evolution School
If you see any pics of a montego Rex on those pages that was me!
Rob thought I was doing well but said I could be better on one particular entry. After two runs late in the day of me doing what I thought was required he just told me to keep my line but brake 20 feet earlier than I thought I should; I have the habit of the late-braker-road-racer-philosophy. After doing this the next section was quicker as I was able to pick up the throttle immediately after turn in rather than gathering up the car and then adding speed.
It was a big help at my first event with the new front sway bar this past weekend. I was timid with the car but was able to make my times tumble by the third run by concentrating more on what I had been taught rather than trying to push the car to 100%. I think with another run I could have knocked another .5 sec off, but as it was I knocked off 3 secs from my first.
All three of these guys are National champs several times over. The Evolution schools are the cheapest mods you will ever make.
Evolution School
If you see any pics of a montego Rex on those pages that was me!
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