Mach2

I had my engine ported a couple of weeks ago and since then I've put aprox. 500 miles on it and I noticed that it was smoking real bad. At first I thought it was the turbos, but after removing and inspecting them I realized that it wasn't. Unfortunately I was forced to pull my engine "again" to see if something was damaged inside, and there is nothing wrong(broken oil rings, springs, etc), but I did notice however that the big oil rings overlap my intake ports when they spin. At first I just saw the wear marks on the side housings, but then I put the rotor back on and spun it till the oil ring was near the intake port, and then I looked through the intake runner and noticed that at least 1/16" of the big oil ring hangs into the intake port. I'm no expert in porting, but this sure doesn't look right to me. Am I wrong? Is this ok? I'm almost positive that this is my problem due to the amount of oil that was being burnt. I'll post some pics of what I'm talking about asap! Thanks in advance. Btw, the porting is by no means big, but I thought that those of you with BIG ports might have encountered this problem, and found some helpful info.

Mach2

Here are the pictures of what I'm talking about. You can see where the oil rings left their wear marks.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/tu6dolce/...riends&.view=t

HWO

your secondary ports would overhang a shave nothing to warrant any worry i dont think

who did you porting? someone with out much clue by the looks of it, they never opened up the back edge of the primary port.

Mach2

HWO,
A so called "expert" with supposedly "15yrs" in the business and with a "vast racing background" did the porting. To me this all means ****! I think people just advertise crap all over the net(website), but in reality they don't know **** about rotaries. Anyway, why wouldn't I have to worry about the oil rings hanging over the intake ports? Wouldn't that cause oil to leak into them?

HWO

the oil tracing mark and the inner edge of the ports seem to be about normal, i have seen engines with the inner edge taken in heaps and seen them run for 18months with no problems and then blow an apex seal from a zillion rpm.

maybe your oil seal was faulty to start with or it was installed incorrectly or something

Mach2

HWO,
Thanks for all your input. I don't consider myself an "expert" by any means, but for some reason I think that's my problem. My reason is if the oil seal/ring hangs into the port then the centrifugal force that is created by rotation can force the oil that is held behind the seal to seep underneath it and leak into the intake port. Here it sits till the apex of the rotor goes by and starts the intake cycle again which drags in that sitting oil. There was nothing wrong with the oil seals or springs so I don't understand where it could come from. It was way too much oil burning to be anything else. Plus before the rebuild the car wasn't smoking at all. Anyone else have some input/experience with this sort of situation?

Mr rx-7 tt

iTrader: (5)

The overlap looks fine to me...He may have used worn oil rings or weak springs........Look carefully at the rubber "o" rings for cuts or slight tears, I think you will find this to be your problem...

RICE RACING

Mach2, I had a close look at your primary ports and secondary ports and what I saw looked very bad !

the inner edge of the port looks like it has been moved "in" around 1 to 2mm in some spots from where it is normally. Now if this has been done then this will cause your oil leak problem. THIS EDGE SHOULD NEVER BE MODIFIED !!!!!! as the outer oil control ring will not be effective hence causing your oil leak problem.

I had a close look, and every time I looked at it especially on the primary port it looked as if it had been ported on this area that should never be touched (apart to clean up the rough spots).

If this is what has been done, then I would throw those plates through that guys front window and demand my money back + my time + replacement end plates !

sorry to hear of your bad experience.

Oh and BIG ports are excellent, when done by someone who knoows what they are doing!

HWO

On closer inspection with my favourite graphics program i have been able to figure out where the tracing lines would normally be and as Peter said, they have been ground in a bit. as i have marked out in the pic.

I have seen a bridge ported engine with miles more grind in than this run for 18months, maybe it's to do with the added oil pressure in a turbo engine, or maybe one of you's just had more luck than the other.

HWO

here is pics of the ports in the engine i am talking about, they are abortions, but it did run and went pretty hard too

RICE RACING

I double checked again and in all photo's he has moved the inner edge of the port inwards !

I never do this !, no rotary people I know do this. This will make the outer oil control ring not work, and allow oil to escape into the intake port/s and hence it will get sucked into the comubustion chamber, hence the smoke.

I even got my girlfriend to look at your photos and compared to ALL others I have on my computer they are the only ones where the inner edge of the port falls under the outer trace mark of the outer oil control ring.

RICE RACING

Yes, the oil ring overlapping into the intake port is VERY BAD !

and YES, HE DOES KNOW **** !!!! ... I am sorry to see you get fucked around like this. I would tell as many people as I could not to ever go to this guy (who did that sit work) as that is VERY bad indeed.

13BAce

Who did the work?

Mr rx-7 tt

iTrader: (5)

Peter, I have taken a couple of motors apart from other builders and have seen this...One of the motors looked similar to this...If the steel ring is even 1/2 closed (sealed) the entire time I don't believe leaking will occour..If the entire seal falls in to the cut port (stupid porting)he will then have an engine that smokes like a mesquito truck....Are you saying this is the case with Mach 2's porting....?

Mr rx-7 tt

iTrader: (5)

Peter, yep, Look on #6, the entire seal gets swallowed........

Mach2

Guys,
I really appreciate all your replies! I knew that if I wanted some very good advice I had to turn to you guys. Well it is exactly what I had suspected. Unfortunately I am going to have to take some firm actions and hope that this "expert" sees his mistakes and tries to fix the situation, but I don't think it'll be that easy. If he decides not to fix the situation then I'll be forced to contact my attorney and he'll have to pay for everything including labor and my inconvenience. I hope it doesn't get to that cause I'm really not like that, but I can't pay for someone elses mistakes. Btw the company name is in my sig, but for those of you that want me to spell it out send me a PM and I'll gladly do so. Oh, and if I recall there is someone here(single turbo section) that had his engine ported by them as well and was complaining about smoking problems, but he excluded the possibilty of the engine cause he was convinced they were "experts". He probably has the same kind of "special porting" done as well. I'll have to locate him and maybe we can both get our problems solved together. Btw he has a t78, but I don't remember his name. Thanks again.

vosko

iTrader: (4)

rotor sports racing ???

Boostn7

Mach2:

Rice Racing is correct, not sure why would this porting "expert" move the inner edge further in !!! they should simply be cleaned a bit to smooth things out.

Depending on the wear on your outer metal oil seal oil consuption is obvious.

Did the spark plugs both front and rear housing showed signs of oil consuption???

Hopefully everything will work out without needing legal action.

Good luck.

Boostn7

Another possibility which happen to my motor...

When machining FD rotors from 2mm to 3mm the machine shop took a bit too much at the base of the groove and the motor ran fine 'till one day my it detonated with lack of fuel and started smoking from there on!!!!! and yet compression was good... the rear plugs always showed signs of heavy oil burning.
Teared the motor down and found nothing wrong with seals or plates !!!!

Go figure....when I detonated it didn't break a seal but it put a hairline crack at the apex seal groove on the rotor. With oil pressure easily hitting 40-100psi it easily made its way to my combustion chamber...

Not sure if you have 3mm seals but it was the weirdest thing that happened to me.

Later,
John D.

Mach2

Well as for the name of the shop I rather not write it out all over yet since I don't know what their reaction might be, and they might just decide to fix what's wrong. If however you are curious then send me a PM and I'll be more than happy to tell you who they are. As for the other questions, I checked all 4 plugs before pulling the engine and found them to be "excessively" carboned up for only 500 miles worth of driving, which leads me to believe that both rotors were burning equal amounts of oil. I haven't checked for the possibilty that Boostn7 mentioned, but I will do that as soon as possible. Btw I'm using the 2mm seals.

Ridge Tech

I had my engine ports by these guys and my car has smoked sence day 1. He told me it was due to an injector problem so he kept it another month. Then when I went to pick it up we still had to wait 2 hours for him finsh on it. On the trip home it almost over heated due to a cracked filler neck and piched hose. ever sence then its smoked. I called him and he said it was probley just the seals setting. I've had my car back now for about 2 months and its still smokeing. I've only got 5k on the engine.

Mach2 I've PM you about this. as for everyone else, dont go there.

Mach2

Well, I contacted the shop today and not to my surprise they denied everything and are refusing to pay for the damage. They pulled out a lame excuse that the warranty is not valid since they did not reassemble the engine. Incorrect engine installation is not what caused my problem, but "bad porting" is. It doesn't mater who reassembled the engine cause the porting was done by "them" prior to the installation, and it was done incorrectly therefore "they" are responsible. I'll be taking legal action now and will hold them responsible for every dime I'm forced to spend. Btw for the rest of you that were involved with this "place" and had a bad experience, please send me a PM as I want to warn them about multiple law suits. Please stay away from this place!!!

RX7_RCR

I hope things work out for you. I would also work in a single turbo...you know, for all of your "pain and suffering".

Greg

Its either T & R or Rampage. PM me the shop name. In my opinion all I see from them is ghetto rigging **** up and ugly *** work.

Mach2

Well, just wanted to let you guys know that my situation is a little bit more complicated than what I had hoped for. Hopefully everything will work out ok, but in the mean time I'm getting a new engine (at my expense) and wanted some "GOOD" advice regarding the porting that I should do/have done. I really don't trust anyone anymore, so I'm planning on doing the porting myself (I am very mechanically inclined and have access to all the tools I need), but I wanted to know what you guys thought about the size of the ports in the pictures. Are those the biggest I can go or can I make them bigger(without going inwards, DUH)? Should I move the back edge much farther back? What about the height? I saw Vosko's pics and his ports look "much" taller. Also, both the primary and secondary ports have to be symetric, correct? How would I accomplish that without making them exactly the same size/shape? All help is appreciated!! Btw the pictures are here: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/tu6dolce/...riends&.view=t