colin

Will the XS T04E/S single turbo kit fit without problems on a J-spec right hand drive FD ?

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

The XS To4e kit is actually a copy of the HKS To4e kit. I used to have a HKS To4e kit that's sold to a customer and I also saw the XS Engineering one in person. They are identical in everyway except the XS enigneering one does not have a wastgate dump pipe back to the downpipe like the HKS one. The HKS one was design for the J-spec FD so I am 100% sure the XS one will fit your right hand drive FD. There is a tap on the steering rack that you have to bend. That's it. I might still have my HKS to4e kit instruction. If you want a copy, send me an email.

Chuck

spyfish007

interesting ..... I thought I heard that the XS Engineering manifold was made and designed by them and that they spent many hours working it over to get the best flow ......

black99

Hey they spent hours scratching their heads over there trying to figure out who's manifold to copy...

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Either HKS copied XS Eningeering or XS Engineering copied HKS. If you don't belive me, you can just buy the to4 cast manifold from HKS for like $600 and then compare to the one you got from XS engineering. HKS came out with the to4e kit back in 93-94. So you can figure who copied whom. I still have the instructions for the HKS to4e kit. Anyone interested can get a copy of that through email from me. The nice thing that XS Engineernig did is that they added a blow off valve on the intercooler pipe. The HKS kit does not come with a BOV. You need to add one there yourself. ALL the to4 series are interchangable. On the HKS To4E kit I got, I changed the compressor housing and wheel to a T60-1 hi fi. I chose that because the customer could still keep the air pump due to the smaller size compressor housing. XS Engineerin probably has their own specs for the To4E. The HKS one is a To4e 57 trim. Anyways, since they are pretty much the same thing, I would go with XS enigneering than HKS because the HKS kit is over priced at $4500 list price. For that price, I rather go with the T78 or the APEX Rx-6 kit, or you can save a little more and get the HKS t51r kai.

Chuck

spyfish007

care to tell me the rest of the specs on that hks to4e? I thought they were using garrett gt turbos ... guess I was wrong!

Oakland fd

The manifolds are different. I have a HKS manifold and from the pictures Ive seen the of the XS one it is slightly different. I don't know about how many hours spent on deleloping it, but its not that different. The only real differnce is for the wastegate inlet on the rear turbo. externally they look about the same. If your not sure, go with the HKS kit because it can fit a right hand drive car. I'm sure the turbo specs are the same. The HKS kit is not a ball bearing turbo. Garrett has not released any gt spec turbos in any large frame sizes yet only t3/t4 stuff is as large as you can get right now. their is a 63trim to4s listed as a preproduction chra, but sadly it is not in production yet. HKS will be comeing out with a ball bearing kit that uses two small gt turbos soon. I think Jason has some pictures of it, but like the similiar supra kit expect it to cost big money($8000). If you want to get these turbos cheep you can get them from Australia for about half the price we pay. Rotaryextreme I would be willing to buy a apex boost cotrol kit and with your help maybe we could figure out a map sensor solution. It would suck if power fc owners could only run 17psi. I'm right in Oakland so pm if your intersested.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Oakland FD is right. The T04e kit is not ball bearing. I only know the compressor is T04E 57 trim. Nothing about the sizing of the turbine housing and wheel. My guess is around 0.8 a/r. BTW, the turbo is made by Garrett Japan and there is no spec on the badge. I am not that experience to tell what kind of a/r and turbine trim just by looking at it. About the difference between the manifold, hmm... that I don't know. They look the same to me. I still have pictures of the HKS To4e maybe Oakland FD can take picture of his manifold and compare. About the map sensor solution, threre are two versions of the Power FC, one has a 3 pin connector for the stock sensor and one has a 5 pin connetor for the stock sensor. The Version 2 one has the 3 pin and the version 5 one has a 5 pin. Only the 3 pin one can be hooked up with the stock map sensor to be used as the barometric pressure reading. Maybe it's one of the reason they do not sell the boost control kit now because all the new power fc has the 5 pin connector. The boost solenoid used by power fc is the same as the new avc-r (blue screen). I think it's the same thing as the old avc-r but the boost sensor (map sensor) are different. The power fc uses the old avc-r map sensor. If you have the version 5 power fc, you cannot use the boost control kit. Luckily, I am one of the first few guys who got the power fc when it first became avaialbe in the states, I have the version 2. The stock map is good for 1.4 kg/cm3. The limitation is the stock map sensor. It only reads to 1.2 kg/cm3 with 4.5V as the max. People who tell you the stock map is good for only 1.2 kg/cm3 is wrong. One forum member Xeccsive (hope i got this name right) told me about the GM map sensor. you can use it with the option 5 selected at the map sensor menu. That sensor you can buy from www.hondata.com. I wll probalby order one and try it out. Hopefully the engine is not going to blow up if it gives the wrong reading of the boost pressure. Anyways, send me an email. since you are so close to me, maybe we can meet up.

Chuck

machinehead

What's this I hear? The great, untouchable, XS Engineering making copies of HKS kits?
Please tell me this isn't true... what about all thier top secret turbo specs that have come from years of painfull research? Custom sized for each and every single individual's needs... So secret they won't tell thier own customers... so secret they go to countless hours grinding off the Garrett stamps inside the housings... and here they are ripping off HKS... tisk, tisk, tisk.
But at least they are cheaper...
Well, I better shut up before I get more nasty emails... just nice to hear it from someone else.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Check out the attached pic. This is the HKS To4e I got. I upgraded the compressor housing and wheel to a T60-1 Hi Fi. That's why you see a turbonetic sticker on the compressor wheel. Machinehead can tell you if they look the same since he got the XS one.

Chuck

spyfish007

That manifold looks undivided .... I thought XS was divided ... that would make it different from the HKS.

Oakland fd

It's divided,looks just like mine. The xs one has only a slightly different pickup for the wastegate for the rear rotor. Someone had posted pictures of their ceramic coated xs manifold on here somewhere. If you at the two you can see the differnce is minor. I was at sevenstock this year and talked to someone at xs about their kit and he wouldn't even tell me if the kit had a divided manifold or not. Ya its kind of frustrating but if you want to know what you've got take of the housings and measure it. As far as I can tell the hks/xs kit is the same only a minor differnce in the manifold. Its a p trim .84 divided 57 trim to4e. Their to4s kit looks to be p trim 1.0 divided but not sure on the compressor. I think it's the same as a turbonetics tso4 with a 2.3"/3.3" wheel anyone want to pull their compressor housing and check.

machinehead

rotaryextreme,
How did the car pull with the 60Hifi? I can tell already I want more power and I am looking for a solution. I see you are running the big HKS now... it seems inevitable. I had a very nice T61, a T78 manifold and a Innovative Turbo wastegate that I was forced to sell... I sure wish I had that now. If you guys ever need turbo work done I would recomend Innovative over Turbonetics. Rick and Ola were the guys that built Turbonetics and now have thier own gig.

OaklandFD... that is funny about XS. They wouldn't even tell you if the manifold was devided or not... ha, ha, ha. Those guys crack me up. Maybe they are not afraid of people finding out thier secrets, they are afraid HKS will sue them for ripping them off. Also very clever how they switch the TS04 to T04S... hillarious.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

The HKS manifold is divided. As for wastegate, I don't really understand what you mean but for the HKS one, if you look inside the manifold, the wastegate tube actually conenects to both tubes for the front and rear rotor exhaust. The ports are inside the manifold. You cannot see it from the outside since it's cast. As for the power, it pulls very strong. Full boost by 2500-3000 rpm. I never put it on my car. I put it on a customer's car and he freaking loved that thing!!! The compressor housing is actually smaller than the To4e but the compressor whee is larger. I did that because I wasnt sure if he went with the regular T60-1, the turbo will still fit without rubbing the frame. The turbine side was kept the way it was. To determine how much power you want, you have to figure out how much boost you will be running and then look at the compressor map to deterimine which turbo is best for you. I did my research and it seems like the T60-1 hi fi flows its best around 15-18 psi. It's the boost that the customer is going to run on his car. So how much boost you want to run and how much power?

Chuck

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

BTW, I looked at the compressor map, your t61 flows pretty similar to the t60-1. I bet you like that turbo. The t61 has the best flow rate at 1.4 kg/cm3. The T60-1 has the best flow rate at 1.2 bar. But their flow rates are almost the same, around 60lb/min. If you want more power, you can always go with larger turbos. Having a garrett turbo makes upgrade so easy.

Chuck

spyfish007

rotaryextreme: How much power did that customer's car put down? @ what rpm was the peak?

Does anyone know if the tial wastegate will bolt up to the xs/hks manifold? If not, oh well I'll put a new flange on it.

Oakland fd

the differnce between the manifolds is very minor. You know on the hks manifold how the wastegate pickup is in the same position for both runners on the hks one,just before the turbo flange. On the xs one the wastegate pickup for the rear rotor is in a differnt position its farther back and on the first bend as the runner goes forward. You can see it from the outside of the manifold if you know what to look for. I didn't notice the differnce on the manifold till someone posted some detailed photos of their xs manifold on this forum. Unfortanly that was quite a while ago. I think it was the post about the guy with 467hp xsto4s that got flamed to all hell. As far as hours spent designing the manifold I hope they didn't spend too much time because the differnce is ******* minor. I'm pretty sure that you'll need to make an adapter to fit the tial wastegate. I'd like to run the tial I think thier the best out there, but out sheer cheepness and laziness I'm going to the hks one.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Unfortunately, we never got time to put his car on the dyno because at that time (2 years ago), the only dynoshop I knew in this area closed down. This customer drove a viper before and he thought his rx-7 felt much faster at the top end. So I can only give you his butt dyno statement at this time. I don't know if it will fit a tial wastegate. The best way to find out is get the dimensions from tial and then get it from HKS at the same time. The worst case is that you get the flange from Tial and tig weld it to the HKS manifold. I don't even think anyone will have a Tial to HKS adaptor. But I think you can make it yourself if you have the laser cut shop to make those block off plates for you. Good luck.

Chuck

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

You might be able to use the Tial one straight onto the HKS manifold because I heard the SR kkk turbo kit uses the HKS cast manifold with the Tial wastegate. Ask Earnie T to confirm though.

Chuck

spyfish007

Thanks Chuck .... I'll be modifing the manifold for the Tial if it doesn't fit, but I'll do it in house on a Haas CNC instead of laser cut. I'm also going to try some different configurations and see what I get.

rotaryextreme

iTrader: (2)

Wow, in house CNC machine. Can you use that to make rotor hats and brackets for the big brake kit? I was looking for a CNC shop to make those but with no luck. Want to get onto this project? I figure for an AP 13" brake kit, it should cost less than $2000.
I am not going to throw my money away if I can make stuff myself. You know what I mean?

Chuck

spyfish007

Well the brake kit is in the begining "idea" stage .... the next thing for me that is almost about to happen is my single turbo kits. PM w/ your number so we can talk sometime.

A-Spec

hmm I think the xs one has a large opening than the HKS, I saw the XS one in person and from looking at it's exterior is, for a lack of better words, fatter than the HKS in the picture. The port fromt the exhaust side is a very large circle...I think the HKS was smaller. Also like someone said before the wastegate mounting is also different.

Also XS built the turbo with watercooled housing unlike the HKS....


David