teamafx

iTrader: (4)

Im buying my first fd to keep since I sold mine to get married 10 years ago. Im up in the air between a 2 or 3 rotor. Im interested in who is running north of 525whp and how many miles and what setup. Any info is appreciated, pics are always helpful!

rx7jocke

If you are looking for milage...... buy a prius :-)
3 rotor will always give more power and tourque and more durability, 525rwhp as u stated equals 263rwhp per rotor in a 2 rotor and will need water or meth injection or you will ned to run it on e85, then the milage will really suck and the engine will wear faster due to oil dilluted with e85 (some might not agree here)
In a 3 rotor it will only be 175 per rotor and you will be able to run it o regular 91, and it wont even break a sweat......however it will more likely break your gearbox and/or rear axel.
Last year i ran 400rwhp 13b (early s4 13bt) on both street and track (drag and circuit) and that was on 91 octane and it was no problem at all....i drove the car 300 miles to the track; raced for 2 days and drove home a handfull of times, with 500+hp on a 2 rotor i wouldnt take that risk :-)

Vicoor

I think the OP may have been asking how many miles are on your 525rwhp car.
People get hung up on how many miles are on a car. Depending on use (and abuse) a car with 20,000 miles can be just as worn out as one with 100,000.

That said, trying to get 500+ hp from a high mileage / unknown internal condition engine is asking for trouble. IMHO

t-von

iTrader: (8)

^Yep seems as the OP is trying to figure out how durable someones setup is based on mileage of use in that hp range. I have 112k on my NA 20b fd. 4K of that is with the 3 rotor.

Neutron

iTrader: (10)

I have been over 500whp for a little more then 10K miles now spanning about 4 years. The car is pretty much a weekend street warrior. It doesn't get driven very often but when it does it is driven hard and almost always in the 600whp range for the past 2 years. E85 is a must as far as I am concerned and a god-sent for the rotary. I do have to change my oil every 500 mile or so. rx7jocke is not wrong on the fuel dilution with E85. It is a non issue if you have no problem using a heaver weight oil and change it more frequently. A 5+ quart jug of Castrol GTX 20w50 is 17 dollars at Walmart and I am using a billet K&N oil filter with a stainless filter element that I can hand clean and never have to replace. This is a non issue for me

mach.80

iTrader: (2)

Neutron:
You premix, correct? Wouldn't this alleviate this? Now you got me worried..
Also, what is your K&N filter model no.? I'd love one!


OP:
Why 525hp+? Just curious. Competition, goals?
Just to give you an example of how fast 550hp is look at this..
Adam ran 9.90 with all factory drive-train and ran 8.90 with the G Force trans.
That being said axles and transmissions were wearable parts at that point.
Back then lines were painted on the axle and once 1/4" twist occurred they were swapped
Now-a-days aftermarket axles are available and trans can be swapped out for reliability.

mannykiller

iTrader: (93)

there are so many contributing factors that any given answer really won't be relevant. Hard driver? Babying it? Fuel? Parts? Tune? how often it's driven? conditions its being driven?

Kills me when people say I've had my car for 3 years making over 500WHP on their set up without any problems. But they drive to meets here and there and the car has been driven 50 miles total over those 3 years or so.

teamafx

iTrader: (4)

I ask to see what longevity people are seeing now. I am not asking how long but how many miles. Track and street etc.

Neutron

iTrader: (10)

I definitely premix and do not have the OMP anymore. I am currently using Super Tech at 1oz per gallon. I am seeing quite a bit of fuel dilution and it is just not worth it to me when oil is so cheap and a oil change is so easy to do. My oil level raises about 2 notches on the dip stick every 500 miles or so.

Here is the oil filter I am using.

K&N Aluminum Re-Usable Oil Filter (SS-1008)

t-von

iTrader: (8)

^ $200.00 for a reusable oil filter????? I'll pass! Pricing that thing at $50.00+ would be K & N air filter territory and way more reasonable. I'll just stick with my $7.00 Purolator plus every 3k.

drftinmx6

iTrader: (6)

5k miles a year to me is driven pretty often for a second car. lets face it we all know an FD is not a good daily driver, the car is tiny and it's not the most comfortable car in the world. I have about 15k miles on my engine and it has shown no signs of compression wear or anything as far as i know ( still hot starts great) and i've been at ~400whp for about 2 years, i am now close to 500whp ( running 23 psi on an s366) and it's still fine. if the OP plans on daily driving it at 525+whp, it is not going to last, it's as simple as that. The car, and the technology of the engine is over 20 years old it was not designed to run 500+whp. you are talking about running more than double the horsepower it was designed for. If the motor is built right and tuned well with some kind of Alcohol injection or running a good fuel and you take good care of it, it will last longer, but i dont care what kind of engine you have Piston or rotary if you are doubling or tripling the horsepower the engine WILL NOT last 50k to 100k miles.

mach.80

iTrader: (2)

Neutron:

Oh I see. I thought you meant washing the oil out of the housing from too much e85..
I'm glad you mentioned this, I'll keep a better eye on it.

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

My last engine was purchased with around 10k miles on it, running 400hp from day one.

I upgraded to a larger turbo and ran 18-25psi 475rwhp-525rwhp as dyno'd on 93 octane + methanol injection. RA Super Seals, Streetport

The motor saw a total of ~6-7,000 miles in the 2 years that I owned it. A few 4hr+ road trips. Beat the HELL out of it, WOT at every chance possible! I know its not a lot of milage, but it proves that it worked.



If you temps are in check, your tune is spot on, including intake air temp (with e85 or methanol injection and a good intercooler) I really don't see much difference between 300hp and 525hp as affecting the longevity.

The biggest issue in higher horsepower is managing the IAT and water/oil temps, leading to detonation etc.


And regarding the 3 rotor, it sounds f*cking sweet and has a lot of torque, but its definitely not necessary for your power/reliability goals. 3 rotor is going to throw in tons of heat and a whole hassle of its own. 3 rotor swap would be a novelty thing if you're feeling crazy

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

Agreed.


Just want to add that driving style likely plays a huge role. If you drive like me, and blast WOT every time you see a clear path, the motor will be done earlier than most. But considering that a daily driver sees alot of time cruising, traffic, road trips etc...there's likely alot of milage racked up with very little load. I can see 50k achievable to a responsible street driver.

As my FD is not a daily, any miles added to the car can be considered all ***** to the wall at any chance given lol

t-von

iTrader: (8)

This is true to a point but really longevity is based on how you drive it and NOT its hp output. A properly built 600hp 13b can last just as long as a 300hp 13b if you drive it economically most of the time. Sure it defeats the purpose of building for that kind of hp but, the truth is, most highly strung 13b's dont see hi boost levels till 3,500rpms and up (unless your rocking the newer spool happy BW EFR turbos). Below this level, these same hi strung 13b's are practically NA.

sk8world

iTrader: (5)

I went over 5 years with 600+hp ... stacks and stacks of drag passes and over 10k street use. The 10k miles means nothing to me but the 5 seasons on an unopened motor with the abuse I put thru it was pretty unbelievable. Only reason the motor went bad is I steped up to a 75mm and 700hp and that didn't last long.

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

statistically I would say that a 300WHP rx7 will be FAR more reliable than a 600WHP rx7.


You can run a stock TT stock a lot of stuff on a 300WHP car. this means keeping the fuel lines, keeping a simple denso OEM supra pump, stock wiring, stock fuel system, stock lots of stuff.

a 600WHP car needs basically new everything. dual pump set up, new fuel system, new lines probably, different turbo's wastegate(s), new ignition system, etc, etc, etc.

I just don't see from a design stand point how a pieced together system will be as reliable as basically a stock system with extensive testing. The data also shows many 300WHP cars out there running great, and MANY 600WHP cars which didn't last the test of time.

600WHP cars can't use the stock transmission for too long, the differential, etc, etc, etc. the 300WHP car is going to walk all over it.

Another sad fact is, I bet the 300WHP car is faster on a tight track like the japanese togue than a 600WHP rx7.

LargeOrangeFont

iTrader: (7)

You do realize that we are not on the island of Japan right?

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Data will also show that not everyone can build a reliable 600hp 13b. That doesn't mean it can't be done (especially with the availability of e85)

You missed the key words to my post....
1. A "Properly built" 600 hp 13b will have everything needed to be reliable.

2. "Economically" driven is self explanitory.

You combine these two and a 600hp 13b can last a very long time regardless of past data.

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

I am willing to bet that most of us novice drivers can drive a 300WHP car faster than a 600WHP car in most situations. a wider powerband on most tracks that aren't gigantic (every single one in my area) will most likely be faster with the majority of us driving it.

The fastest guys that track are in slower cars and turn faster times than those in high WHP cars (the ones that track with us).

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

That is the problem and I am hopefully making it clear.

e85 has not been great for everyone, the risk with high WHP cars is they blow all the time or damage other components on the car. I can't really name a single 600WHP car that hasn't had a ton of problems. Howard has blown a ton of engines, Manny has gone through some engines (not 600WHP), thewerd has gone through a few trannies at this power on a 20b, other 20b guys have gone through trannies and diffs. Others have had fuel problems which have blown engines.

Properly built, I can't say who has properly built engines on this forum. If I would take a stab at anything I would trust my engine to perhaps two places. The place that built my engine origionally "lucky 7", and thewerd hasn't had engine problems. I think Barry Bordes also has had a great looking engine running high whp.

there just isn't a large margin of safety at 600WHP and the design of our engines.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Properly built is not running the stock driveline. Also you keep forgetting about my my term "driven economically". Remember again that your average 600 hp 13b isn't under any stress till 3,500 rpm and above due to boost lag. Below that range, that engine is practically NA. If driven below that rpm range more often than not, a 600hp 13b can easily last thousands and thousands of miles.

Just because you build a hi hp rotary, doesn't mean it needs to be driven to it limits everyday.

This fd apparently is built properly ( in terms of reliability) and has 700+ pulls on the dyno.

https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...river-1075980/

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

Piecing together a system most likely won't be as reliable as a stock hardline system. so even driven like a daily driver the 600WHP car shouldn't be as reliable as one that is mostly stock.

600WHP is a ton of power for this engine, all it takes is one small hiccup. I am assuming that getting 600WHP on a single turbo is probably taking 30-40PSI on some turbo or running a really large turbo at lower boost which is an on/off switch for power.

sk8world

iTrader: (5)

I guess it's all in what you are looking for. Yes 300rwhp would last longer on a DD car that does the circle racing on the weekends but you will get destroyed by most new vettes , vipers, etc.. If you roll up on one while going to work and this may not be a big deal for you.

but when you make big power and if you do any sort of racing then you will brake parts

Vicoor

I'm confident that the increased stresses caused by increased output from any engine degrades the potential life of the engine. How much exactly? There are so many variables it would make it hard to say. Just as stock, the engine life varies greatly dependent on the conditions under which it was operated.

As has been mentioned, a 500+rwhp RX7 (or a stock one) is really only used at peak output for a small percentage of it's actual run time. Which is evident by the fact that most of us still have driving privileges.

The factor of engineering as compared to stock has been mentioned. Really, while something of a marvel, there are significant shortcomings in the stock system. Most notably, it's complexity, and the heat retention. A sizable percentage of stock engines also fail.

If proper attention to detail is used during modification, OEM grade or better components, a larger single turbo with a well designed manifold and free flowing exhaust, Good plumbing, Real automotive grade (or better) wiring, bigger intercooler, and proper tuning, a 500+rwhp car could actually last longer than stock, due to simplicity and reduced heat retention.

As long as you don't smash it all the time!