760 on 30psi with a 13b is good but my little 12a is right behind you comming in at 730rwhp....granted it is a bridgeport.....

i visably saw a 13b rew motor make 920rwhp, so you have a ways to go....Dee....

 

sorry air compressor is running As far as having a way to go lets just say the car is tuned on alchohol and I am very close to the most you ever saw you visually saw. Oh and mine is through a automatic tranny So put that in your pipe and smoke it I'm calling you now!!!

 

Whoa there.... I wasn't questioning them at all. I totally believe you that those numbers are legit.

I was merely stating that there's a difference with what YOU can achieve versus what "Joe Schmoe" that buys your kit can make (unless Joe happens to be a pretty good tuner!). We all know that you have a lot of tuning experience, motor experience, etc... So your sheets most likely will represent a better-than-average result, and most home-installed kits will not be as well set up. We all know it's the overall package - motor, turbo, tuning, etc, that makes the numbers not just the turbo model number.

For example, if I take my turbo off my car (makes about 406 rwhp at 14 PSI or somewhere around 415 at 15 PSI) and ship it cross country to a random FD guy... let him bolt it on to HIS engine and have him tune the car to his liking... I can almost bet you it won't come out the same as my numbers. And the curve won't look quite 100% the same either. Different car, different engine, different tuner, etc, etc.

I guess all I'm saying is that you have a lot of know-how put into your dynos you present... so not everyone can expect to easily slap on your kit and get the exact same graph as you.

I also heard somewhere that your dynos had the JayTech manifold on the engine... is this true? Maybe I was misinformed. That would definitely be a variable that most people would not have.

Anyhow, I think that graph looks bad ***! I'd like to know how you make the torque curve so flat!

Any chance you'd post your timing maps for 15 psi?

Brian

 

I think both Dee and Wargasm make good points. It is great to see the person putting out a product, test it and supply the results to his customer base. It takes alot of time and money to acheive the upper limits of a product. I do not think anyone feels Dee has misled or misapplied his results. I think it is probably safe to say however that most people buying anykit, will not be able to achieve the full potential of what they are purchasing. This is what wargasm is saying. That most of us will never be able to duplicate your results unless we have your many years of experience.

To solve this problem I suggest the following to Dee. Clone yourself and for $400 more, ship yourself in the box with the kit. Then after your clone tunes the car, it can self destruct. This would be a deal for $400 more

Dee, you da man

Mike

 

Thats why you have Dee install his kit on your car and then have him tune it for you. Afterall who knows the turbo setup better then him?

 

You say "whoa there" but with statements like these you have to realize you are going to upset someone sooner or later. These are examples of insinuating that someone maybe altering the results of dyno results.

“Sorry but until I see more proof than one dyno”

“when the only results I know of are from the guy selling the kits... come on people!”

I do not agree with your post here are some of the reasons why.

You are saying you need more proof. And you use your to4s as a example of how good tuning can change results, but if you give me the to4s there is absolutly no way I can achieve the power that I did with the R85 it is physically impossible. Yet you use that as a example of one of the turbos of choice.

There are a few things you need to make power air/fuel/ignition/compression. If I tune a car to 11.5to1 and you use the same wideband to tune the same car to 11.5to1 and we have the same timing curves both of us will get the same results. The bottom line is at 1bar if a turbo flows 45lbs of air you will make 450rwhp. A to4s only flows 40lbs of air so you are only gonna make around 400rwhp thats it bottom line you can not overcome this physical limitation of the turbo no matter what you hang off the motor or how you port it unless you replace it and most people don't like to hear this about thier turbos when they are trying to achieve a higher number then thier turbo is designed for. What the gentlemen who started this post is trying to do is the correct way to pick a turbo. First set your desired boost level and horsepower then pic a turbo not pic a turbo and try to make the number then realize you have to turn up the boost to get there.

Torque falling off can be back pressure building up in the turbine section of your turbo. This is a common problem with rotaries because everyone always undersizes turbine sections for rotaries for example take a look around on this forum and see how everyone thinks a p-trim is the correct size wheel for a street turbo.

Remember P-trims are only good for door stops or hondas

As for the timing maps i would be glad to post them but I would suggest using a egt to find the sweet spot for your car.

 

what the hell got into you Dee? dont post any timing maps. there is no reason for it. if you do, you already know people will doubt them too. just put a sock in it

what was the call about? an explination how over a year wait turns a rotor housing into solinoid/rats nest somehow?
just call me when she gets washed up... if i dont answer mine, call my old lady's cell tonight.

 

OK I'm not trying to get into an argument about it....

To ask another question, you said that P trims are door stop material... so I can assume that your kit is a Q trim? Or maybe not? A lot of people have gone down the P trim road, so it's a "safe" pick. But I know what you're thinking, being SAFE isn't the way to be the LEADER... you need to take some chances and try new stuff.

I bought a P trim turbo because 400 rwhp at 15 PSI would be attainable. I didn't want to gamble and get a Q trim since I am not made of money here

 

Oh one more thing... the reason I recommend things like T04S, T66, etc (with the note that they will probably not get quite to 450 rwhp), is that lots of people have gotten results in the low 400s at around 1 bar.

As I said on page 1, "T78, T66, T04S I doubt you'll make 450 at 15 psi, but maybe at 16 or 17."

So I fully agree that 450 at 15 on a T04S is a stretch. I was just trying to throw some other options out there for the original guy.

The ONLY reason I don't recommend your kit is that so far, the only dynos I know of are yours. I'm not saying I think you're lying AT ALL, I just prefer to make safe recommendations.

I also said, "I'd like to see 3 or 4 results on that turbo before I recommend it to anyone."

When I see some customer cars with around 450 at around 15 PSI, I will be the very first person in threads saying, "This new kit is great and here's the link to the site!". I'm just sitting back and waiting for now though. If this turbo is as great as it looks, I might just trade in mine for it!

Were the runs on your page with the Jaytech manifold? I was thinking of buying one of those for my car but I wasn't sure what the benefits were for my situation (pump gas, under 20 PSI, etc).

Thanks,
Brian

 

Ok so based on the above example what would happen if 2 Fd's are running the exact same set-up but one of the Fd's has the higher (10.0) compression renesis rotors? Wouldn't the engine with the higher compression rotors make the same amount of power but at a lower boost level?

 

What about 2 identical FDs, one with a crappy stock manifold and one with a huge bored out one, giant porting, free flow exhaust... I think you get the idea that 15 psi is not 15 psi is not 15 psi... depends on the whole system.

 

Didn't i say two identical cars. Can you read? I had no idea that the whole system makes power thanks to worldy knowledge I will definetly pic up some power this year As far as dyno sheets with stock manifolds I have one on high boost that is only ten horsepower off the high boost one with the jay tech that is on kgparts.com I was heasatent to post this sheet as it has mph instead of rpm on one axis and I sure someone like yourself would cry foul. Should I submit it to you for your approval?

I am done posting directly to you to answer you questions you are more then welcome to call me or pm if you have specific questions. I realize that on this forum you may have more then the average knowledge as you have installed your single turbo yourself but i suggest you take the time to listen to people with a little more experience cause the truth is you have had one turbo on your car and only one and you do not have the experience that some others have like myself and some others. I have had at least 50 differnet sized turbos on my car over the past 8 years just because sometimes all the formulas in the books your read would don't get you to where I have been already, and there is alot to be said for practical experience over book read knowledge.

For example you mention the t78,t72,t66,to4s have you used all of these. Well I have on my own car and have tuned numerous others. So I kinda have a feeling of how they perform.

Here is where 15psi is 15psi and this is what I'm trying to beat into your thick skull if you have done all you can to the motor to ingest the little bit of air your to4s can put out you are going to max out at around 400rwhp wich is what you are finding out. And for some people making 40 more rwhp then stock twins is not enough to justify the large investent. And if you think you are going to put race gas in and tune it for 20psi go ahead you will see that you won't pick up as much as you think trust me I have run those levels on that turbo. Based on the emails and dyno sheets you have sent me and my advice now is the same it was when you sent me the emails if you like the way you turbo spools up but want more power find a way to upgrade it to keep that quick spool but flow more air. You can start buying turbos and fund your R&D or you can benefit from someone elses the path you take is up to you

Just so everyone knows I am not biased and do not need to sell my kit to eat. I will go ahead and tell his gentleman I refuse to sell him my kit and I will go ahead and recommend a t70 with a qtrim with a .96 ar or 1.0A/R depending on his personal tastes.

 

Cool, I think that answers my question.

I've only used the T04S; my recommendations are based on looking at over a hundred dynos with different turbos on 13B engines. All these engines have different mods, porting, tuning standards... but when you look at enough of them you can make some generalizations. I have never just looked at a compressor map and declared a turbo to be "good for X hp". So I feel that I usually give out fairly sound advice. At least I'm not on here telling people the stock twins are good for 400 rwhp. Yeah maybe one or maybe two people have gotten that, but we all know that's not very realistic if you want your car to last a while.

And this is exactly how I ended up with the T04S. My goal was 400 rwhp at 1 bar. I looked around at dyno sheets, asked for advice... and in the end I picked the turbo I have now. It got me right where I wanted to be at the boost I wanted. Now that I'm used to the power, I kinda want to take it to the next level with similar lag hopefully. Your kit is looking great so far, and I'm excited about it!

50 turbos in 8 years!? dammmmmnnnnn.....

Brian

 

Don't different countries have different octane ratings?

 

we use a (ron+mon)/2 here in the US. check out your gas pump next time you fill up.