what kind of boost/hp would be safe for me to tune for
06-23-09, 10:23 PM
#1
mmm doritos
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: lancaster PA
Posts: 2,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what kind of boost/hp would be safe for me to tune for
So i just finished a new turbo setup in my TII and im getting ready to take it to get it dyno tuned on the 3rd and im trying to get some opinions on what boost levels are safe for me to run with my motor/setup. I had an old setup on this same motor that i made 380whp at 15psi on a T04R turbo, I want/need more power then that. I just finished installing a new T04Z turbo and long runner manifold with 3.5 inch downpipe from turblown, i also just finished installing a cooling mist progressive methanol injection setup that i will be running a 50/50 water/meth mixture in. This should allow me to safely run alot more boost so i can reach my horsepower goals. I was hoping to make closer to 500whp at whatever boost level it takes to get there. How safe is it to run 500whp on a bone stock internals motor? should the motor be studded/dowel pinned before i try and make 500whp with it? considering the motor is tuned good and it dosent detonate will the motor still have a long life even though im running 500whp? and how much boost will it take to get me there? This is a list of my mods:
Stock internals S5 motor with only 4k miles, its a brand new mazda motor not a reman
T04Z turbo
Turblown long runner tube manifold
Turblown 3.5 inch downpipe w/ recirc wastegate
RB cat back/ 3.5 from downpipe to Y pipe where it splits to the mufflers
Greddy 3 row 24x12 front mount intercooler
1600cc secondaries
850cc primaries
Full parallel fuel system with KG rails and aeromotive regulator
Supra TT pump
microtech LT10 ECU
4 inch cold air intake
coolingmist deluxe meth injection setup with varicool progressive control unit
runing 50/50 meth water
tons of other heat coatings/shields and other mods to lower IAT
[IMG]
[/IMG]
Stock internals S5 motor with only 4k miles, its a brand new mazda motor not a reman
T04Z turbo
Turblown long runner tube manifold
Turblown 3.5 inch downpipe w/ recirc wastegate
RB cat back/ 3.5 from downpipe to Y pipe where it splits to the mufflers
Greddy 3 row 24x12 front mount intercooler
1600cc secondaries
850cc primaries
Full parallel fuel system with KG rails and aeromotive regulator
Supra TT pump
microtech LT10 ECU
4 inch cold air intake
coolingmist deluxe meth injection setup with varicool progressive control unit
runing 50/50 meth water
tons of other heat coatings/shields and other mods to lower IAT
[IMG]
[/IMG]
06-23-09, 11:28 PM
#2
Nick,
Its probably going to take 20psi, an ignition amp and a set of cold plugs:
http://www.rhdjapan.com/jdm-low/TRUS...tary-13B-13926
Its probably going to take 20psi, an ignition amp and a set of cold plugs:
http://www.rhdjapan.com/jdm-low/TRUS...tary-13B-13926
06-24-09, 06:45 AM
#3
mmm doritos
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: lancaster PA
Posts: 2,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah that may be holding me back, i don't have an ignition amp, that's probably the only thing on the car that hasn't been touched, lol... and i hear when you start running alot of meth, you need a really strong spark to prevent the meth from bogging it down. As for plugs, right now i just have the stock temps but in platinum version...im looking into getting an ignition but wouldnt i need the whole msd boxes setup that ends up costing like $1200? or is there some cheaper way to do it?
06-24-09, 11:45 AM
#5
For ignition you could start with a simple MSD 6a on the leading coil if the microtech can work with it. I'm not familiar with their units...
The 6a and stock coil work pretty damn well in my experience.
As for plugs I'd look into some 10.5 range.
IMO you should be looking more at your torque to tell you when you're reaching your limits on pump fuel. Up around 375ft/lbs WITH AI is going to be about the limit. The stock internals should be OK at that power, but you might need to take the boost level enven higher with stock porting to make it. The smaller stock ports (although they work fine) do take a little more pressure to make elevated power in my experience. They keep the torque nice though
The 6a and stock coil work pretty damn well in my experience.
As for plugs I'd look into some 10.5 range.
IMO you should be looking more at your torque to tell you when you're reaching your limits on pump fuel. Up around 375ft/lbs WITH AI is going to be about the limit. The stock internals should be OK at that power, but you might need to take the boost level enven higher with stock porting to make it. The smaller stock ports (although they work fine) do take a little more pressure to make elevated power in my experience. They keep the torque nice though
06-24-09, 07:39 PM
#6
mmm doritos
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: lancaster PA
Posts: 2,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so those damn greddy plugs are $160 !!! holy ****...is that for all four? i thought i remember hearing somewhere here that there are plugs that are identical to the greddy plugs but they are way cheaper..anyone know if that is true? Also i dont really have time to install a ignition box system because my dyno time is next friday the 3rd. But its defiantly something ill be installing in the near future. What about the HKS twin power ignition amplifier? I hear its decent and dosent need a shitload of wires all over the place. Anyone here have input on the hks unit?
Also classicauto, why do you say look at the torque instead of horsepower? im hoping to get this thing to make at least 500whp. Is that getting into the danger zone on stock internals? ive heard from a few people that its possible to crack the irons when you get that high...
Also classicauto, why do you say look at the torque instead of horsepower? im hoping to get this thing to make at least 500whp. Is that getting into the danger zone on stock internals? ive heard from a few people that its possible to crack the irons when you get that high...
06-25-09, 12:07 AM
#7
let me give you some advice that you and a lot of other people are probably not going to take, or even read. And it might get me flamed.
the best way to make 'more horsepower' is to walk down the street to a different dyno and roll the dice. don't get so caught up in a number. People go nuts over getting a dyno sheet that's finally "good enough" : good enough for bragging rights to anyone at a gas station who will listen; good enough for internet forum posts; or good enough for one's self worth or whatever's going on between their ears. I learned that from my last build, after a "disappointing" dyno of 386rwhp led me to turn up the boost, blow off a MAP sensor line and blow my motor. It's a 2800 pound street car with relatively short gearing, making more power-to-weight than most production cars. And that's not good enough?
I have a very similar setup to yours: T2 with T04R, long runner manifold, standalone. I tune it myself and I haven't dyno'd it yet on the new motor, and now I'm thinking I won't even bother for a long time. After a certain point, who gives a **** about a magic number? It's just going to result in wheel spin, a car accident, or legal trouble. Even on a track (not a drag strip) a ton of power can be a liability, and this doesn't sound like a drag car either. And yet you're talking about engine life in the same post?
you finally get the power you want, and you can't even use it unless you are risking arrest, driving a 1/4 mile at a time, or spending $Texas on track events. It's the whole "hedonistic treadmill" : the more you have, the more you want, and the less satisfied you are with what you have achieved.
the best way to make 'more horsepower' is to walk down the street to a different dyno and roll the dice. don't get so caught up in a number. People go nuts over getting a dyno sheet that's finally "good enough" : good enough for bragging rights to anyone at a gas station who will listen; good enough for internet forum posts; or good enough for one's self worth or whatever's going on between their ears. I learned that from my last build, after a "disappointing" dyno of 386rwhp led me to turn up the boost, blow off a MAP sensor line and blow my motor. It's a 2800 pound street car with relatively short gearing, making more power-to-weight than most production cars. And that's not good enough?
I have a very similar setup to yours: T2 with T04R, long runner manifold, standalone. I tune it myself and I haven't dyno'd it yet on the new motor, and now I'm thinking I won't even bother for a long time. After a certain point, who gives a **** about a magic number? It's just going to result in wheel spin, a car accident, or legal trouble. Even on a track (not a drag strip) a ton of power can be a liability, and this doesn't sound like a drag car either. And yet you're talking about engine life in the same post?
you finally get the power you want, and you can't even use it unless you are risking arrest, driving a 1/4 mile at a time, or spending $Texas on track events. It's the whole "hedonistic treadmill" : the more you have, the more you want, and the less satisfied you are with what you have achieved.
Trending Topics
06-25-09, 12:16 AM
#8
let me give you some advice that you and a lot of other people are probably not going to take, or even read. And it might get me flamed.
the best way to make 'more horsepower' is to walk down the street to a different dyno and roll the dice. don't get so caught up in a number. People go nuts over getting a dyno sheet that's finally "good enough" for bragging rights to anyone at a gas station who will listen; for internet forum posts; or for one's self worth or something. i learned that from my last build, after a "disappointing" dyno of 386rwhp led me to turn up the boost, blow off a MAP sensor line and blow my motor. It's a 2800 pound street car with relatively short gearing, making more power-to-weight than most production cars. And that's not good enough?
I have a very similar setup to yours: T2 with T04R, long runner manifold, standalone. I tune it myself and I haven't dyno'd it yet, and now I'm thinking I won't even bother for a long time. After a certain point, who gives a **** about the number? It's just going to result in wheel spin, a car accident, or legal trouble. Even on a track (not a drag strip) a ton of power can be a liability, and this doesn't sound like a drag car either. And yet you're talking about engine life in the same post?
you finally get the power you want, and you can't even use it unless you are risking arrest, driving a 1/4 mile at a time, or spending $Texas on track events. It's the whole "hedonistic treadmill" : the more you have, the more you want, and the less satisfied you are with what you have achieved.
the best way to make 'more horsepower' is to walk down the street to a different dyno and roll the dice. don't get so caught up in a number. People go nuts over getting a dyno sheet that's finally "good enough" for bragging rights to anyone at a gas station who will listen; for internet forum posts; or for one's self worth or something. i learned that from my last build, after a "disappointing" dyno of 386rwhp led me to turn up the boost, blow off a MAP sensor line and blow my motor. It's a 2800 pound street car with relatively short gearing, making more power-to-weight than most production cars. And that's not good enough?
I have a very similar setup to yours: T2 with T04R, long runner manifold, standalone. I tune it myself and I haven't dyno'd it yet, and now I'm thinking I won't even bother for a long time. After a certain point, who gives a **** about the number? It's just going to result in wheel spin, a car accident, or legal trouble. Even on a track (not a drag strip) a ton of power can be a liability, and this doesn't sound like a drag car either. And yet you're talking about engine life in the same post?
you finally get the power you want, and you can't even use it unless you are risking arrest, driving a 1/4 mile at a time, or spending $Texas on track events. It's the whole "hedonistic treadmill" : the more you have, the more you want, and the less satisfied you are with what you have achieved.
thewird
06-25-09, 07:16 AM
#9
mmm doritos
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: lancaster PA
Posts: 2,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The reason for going to the dyno isnt to get a bunch of numbers..the reason is to tune the car so it dosent blow up..you cant do that properly on the street, And this car is infact a drag car as well as street car, i have a certified full roll cage and i run 10.5 inch MT slicks on it. Its not really a competition drag car hence the full interior ect.. i drag it just for fun, to see how fast i can get it to go.. I was already running 11's with the old setup. The old setup i had on the car was a lag monster, which is the reason for getting a new turbo setup..the car with 380 whp was ok but i really never thought it was that fast.
06-25-09, 08:48 AM
#10
I say to look at torque because the torque is the key. When talking about the ragged edge, you can add timing and remove fuel above peak torque - even though horsepower is climbing.
Ask yourself why clutches are rated by torque and not horsepower.
Also, an MSD 6A won't take you more then an hour to install. Making the bracket will be the hardest thing, and the investment will be under $150 if you're really concerned about having an amp on there by next friday.
As for the numbers thing, yeah it really doesn't matter. All you need to do is make yourself happy with the car - its yours and no one elses
Ask yourself why clutches are rated by torque and not horsepower.
Also, an MSD 6A won't take you more then an hour to install. Making the bracket will be the hardest thing, and the investment will be under $150 if you're really concerned about having an amp on there by next friday.
As for the numbers thing, yeah it really doesn't matter. All you need to do is make yourself happy with the car - its yours and no one elses
06-25-09, 10:53 AM
#11
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
nice setup.
i don't have all your answers but do have a few.
the TO4Z makes 60 pounds per minute of air at approx 15 psi and 70 at 22 psi.
if your motor was ported and properly fixtured you would make approx 455 rw at 15 and 530 at 22.
stock ports deduct 15%.
i do have a concern as to your fuel pump. ideally you need a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump and you are then good to go. keep a close eye on your fuel pressure at max conditions.
if you were running 1000 CC/Min of methanol you would not need the BAP.
as to ignition.... running meth w no water as AI injectant does not necessarily require more ignition than gasoline. however, generally anything over 425 rwhp requires an amp. you could just add an MSD 6A on the leading plugs...
lead plugs need to be at least 10 heat range or you will crack your rotor housings around the spark plug hole. trails are o k at 9 but 10 is preferred.
1 ounce of any 2 cycle oil per gallon in your gas tank before any dyno run.
water requires more ignition than meth or gasoline. the more meth you use the happier your motor will be.
i don't know second gen motors although i hear of cracked rear plates at high hp levels. i do know they re-enforced the 3rd gen rear plate.
good luck and please be sure to let us know how it goes.
howard coleman
i don't have all your answers but do have a few.
the TO4Z makes 60 pounds per minute of air at approx 15 psi and 70 at 22 psi.
if your motor was ported and properly fixtured you would make approx 455 rw at 15 and 530 at 22.
stock ports deduct 15%.
i do have a concern as to your fuel pump. ideally you need a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump and you are then good to go. keep a close eye on your fuel pressure at max conditions.
if you were running 1000 CC/Min of methanol you would not need the BAP.
as to ignition.... running meth w no water as AI injectant does not necessarily require more ignition than gasoline. however, generally anything over 425 rwhp requires an amp. you could just add an MSD 6A on the leading plugs...
lead plugs need to be at least 10 heat range or you will crack your rotor housings around the spark plug hole. trails are o k at 9 but 10 is preferred.
1 ounce of any 2 cycle oil per gallon in your gas tank before any dyno run.
water requires more ignition than meth or gasoline. the more meth you use the happier your motor will be.
i don't know second gen motors although i hear of cracked rear plates at high hp levels. i do know they re-enforced the 3rd gen rear plate.
good luck and please be sure to let us know how it goes.
howard coleman
06-27-09, 09:00 AM
#12
mmm doritos
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: lancaster PA
Posts: 2,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks for the info classic and howard.. i went ahead and got some greddy racing plugs sent 2nd day air. i got the 10's. Also im looking into getting an msd 6a box and blaster coils for the leading coils. I think what i also need to do, since i have a microtech the guys running this ecu usually hook up a microtech brand ignition amplifier and run that to the msd box. However im not going to have time to install the ignition box and coils before friday so im just going to have the greddy plugs in there, and well see how it goes..also right now i have the 506cc/m or 8gph nozzle in there for the meth, but i also have a 760cc or 12gph nozzle that someone mentioned i should use that instead of the 506cc nozzle, so im going to have to try both i guess
07-07-09, 02:30 AM
#13
nice setup.
i don't have all your answers but do have a few.
the TO4Z makes 60 pounds per minute of air at approx 15 psi and 70 at 22 psi.
if your motor was ported and properly fixtured you would make approx 455 rw at 15 and 530 at 22.
stock ports deduct 15%.
howard coleman
i don't have all your answers but do have a few.
the TO4Z makes 60 pounds per minute of air at approx 15 psi and 70 at 22 psi.
if your motor was ported and properly fixtured you would make approx 455 rw at 15 and 530 at 22.
stock ports deduct 15%.
howard coleman
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Jeff20B
1st Generation Specific (1979-1985)
73
09-16-18 07:16 PM
HalifaxFD
Canadian Forum
126
05-09-16 07:06 PM
rx8volks
Canadian Forum
0
09-16-15 09:07 PM
rx8volks
Canadian Forum
0
09-01-15 11:02 PM
