What Do You Consider Streetable???
08-21-01, 09:44 AM
#1
What Do You Consider Streetable???
I just read the latest Oct 2001 Turbo mag. It had RX7.com project car that passed emmisions with a T78 single turbo. They talked about being a great streetable car with 200 rwhp over stock. I too have plans on going single turbo. I have a concern that needs to be addressed. When I am doing my daily driving. I do not go WOT and I just step on the gas and shift at about 4.5k rpms until I reach my desired speed. Now there is a dyno chart on pg 89 of T78 and stock FD. If you don't have it the numbers are below. I am wondering what the rest of you consider streetable. The numbers tell me stock is much more streetable.
In other words it performs much better under 5k rpms. What do you think?? They also made a big deal out of passing emmissions. Well I don't know about your state but in my state when they did do emmissions they didn't go over 5k rpms. I can see why it passed, it only gets real power afterl 5k rpms.
rpm TT T78
2.0 40 40
2.5 60 50
3.0 100 80
3.5 120 100
4.0 140 120
4.5 150 150
5.0 160 200
5.5 170 320
6.0 210 370
6.5 210 390
7.0 210 410
7.5 180 400
Ken
"94 White, Red Leather
www.nopistons.com
In other words it performs much better under 5k rpms. What do you think?? They also made a big deal out of passing emmissions. Well I don't know about your state but in my state when they did do emmissions they didn't go over 5k rpms. I can see why it passed, it only gets real power afterl 5k rpms.
rpm TT T78
2.0 40 40
2.5 60 50
3.0 100 80
3.5 120 100
4.0 140 120
4.5 150 150
5.0 160 200
5.5 170 320
6.0 210 370
6.5 210 390
7.0 210 410
7.5 180 400
Ken
"94 White, Red Leather
www.nopistons.com
08-22-01, 06:19 AM
#2
There was a big discussion on the "big list" on my post. I came up with other dyno curves and some software simmulation drag times you might find interesting. TT = the stock dyno graph in the Turbo mag article. T78 is the dyno graph from the same article. t04e is from the xs-engineering web site and the t04s is from the same web site. The 350tt is from a member that has a highly modded stock twin turbo with a 350RWHP peak.
rpms TT T78 t04e t04s 350tt
2.0 040 040 040 040 060
2.5 060 050 070 050 090
3.0 100 080 100 070 140
3.5 120 100 150 110 170
4.0 140 120 210 170 190
4.5 150 150 260 250 220
5.0 160 200 290 270 280
5.5 170 320 320 330 310
6.0 210 370 340 360 340
6.5 210 390 360 430 350
7.0 210 410 365 460 350
7.5 180 400 365 460 340
TT T78 T04E T04S 350tt
0-60' 1.97 1.85 1.72 1.7 1.6
0-60 mph 5.02 3.40 3.36 3.18 3.15
1/8 8.8 7.6 7.5 7.3 7.4
mph 80 101 99 101 98
1/4 13.6 11.6 11.7 11.3 11.6
mph 98 127 123 129 122
Ken
"94 White, Red Leather
www.nopistons.com
rpms TT T78 t04e t04s 350tt
2.0 040 040 040 040 060
2.5 060 050 070 050 090
3.0 100 080 100 070 140
3.5 120 100 150 110 170
4.0 140 120 210 170 190
4.5 150 150 260 250 220
5.0 160 200 290 270 280
5.5 170 320 320 330 310
6.0 210 370 340 360 340
6.5 210 390 360 430 350
7.0 210 410 365 460 350
7.5 180 400 365 460 340
TT T78 T04E T04S 350tt
0-60' 1.97 1.85 1.72 1.7 1.6
0-60 mph 5.02 3.40 3.36 3.18 3.15
1/8 8.8 7.6 7.5 7.3 7.4
mph 80 101 99 101 98
1/4 13.6 11.6 11.7 11.3 11.6
mph 98 127 123 129 122
Ken
"94 White, Red Leather
www.nopistons.com
08-22-01, 08:26 PM
#3
Old [Sch|F]ool
What about all the people driving ported non-turbo engines that barely can turn the accessories until they finally come alive at 3500?
That might even be more driveable... I had an opportunity to drive a well-modded MR2 and I... DIDN'T. it was raining, and the boost on this thing would come up RIGHT NOW. I was just putzing along in the parking lot in 2nd gear, at 2k, and I went to accelerate a little, and the boost came up just like that. Saw 5psi flash up and the back end got "greasy" and I backed out super-quick. I turned right back around, did not want to drive this thing in traffic! There was just a tiny bit of lag, and wham.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I want something that crazy (I think he said it was 335rwhp, running 22psi) but it wouldn't be daily-driveable. Something that didn't make appreciable boost until 4k would be great - that way you can't get into trouble unless you really mean it. And trouble would just be a downshift away.
That might even be more driveable... I had an opportunity to drive a well-modded MR2 and I... DIDN'T. it was raining, and the boost on this thing would come up RIGHT NOW. I was just putzing along in the parking lot in 2nd gear, at 2k, and I went to accelerate a little, and the boost came up just like that. Saw 5psi flash up and the back end got "greasy" and I backed out super-quick. I turned right back around, did not want to drive this thing in traffic! There was just a tiny bit of lag, and wham.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I want something that crazy (I think he said it was 335rwhp, running 22psi) but it wouldn't be daily-driveable. Something that didn't make appreciable boost until 4k would be great - that way you can't get into trouble unless you really mean it. And trouble would just be a downshift away.
08-22-01, 10:02 PM
#4
As long as it have cold *** A/C, P/S, Window Defroster and Stereo and throw in the power to spin the wheels, would be the best combination for the street!
A 400 hp street car is old school
crispeed
87TII
9.20@150mph
A 400 hp street car is old school
crispeed
87TII
9.20@150mph
08-22-01, 10:21 PM
#5
Originally posted by gmonsen it doesn't come easily though. it takes a lot of tuning and rethinking of the exhaust, the ignition, the settings on the rrfpr, and on and on to get it the way you want it. -gordon [/B]
Oh, my brother got the HOTROD7 last night. FC V8 Chevy souped-up. That 380lbs torque is a killer. Ran some simmulations with his dyno curve and my predicted single turbo dyno curve. My top end kills him, he destroys me on the low end. That car just flat out takes off smoothly with all that low end torque. 0-30 mph I'm destroyed, after that I'll blow by him.
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08-25-01, 09:55 AM
#9
Well, I decided to get the T04e kit from Jason. Hopefully Dave will have it by 9-4-01 and I can come out and pick it up on 9-11-01.
I guess that's optimistic considering all the delays so far. Oh well maybe by 10-01. Get to drive it till 11-01 and then store it.
Ken
"94 White, Red Leather
www.nopistons.com
I guess that's optimistic considering all the delays so far. Oh well maybe by 10-01. Get to drive it till 11-01 and then store it.
Ken
"94 White, Red Leather
www.nopistons.com
08-25-01, 10:36 AM
#10
Bigger and better things
Originally posted by LUV94RX7
rpms TT T78 t04e t04s 350tt
2.0 040 040 040 040 060
2.5 060 050 070 050 090
3.0 100 080 100 070 140
3.5 120 100 150 110 170
4.0 140 120 210 170 190
4.5 150 150 260 250 220
5.0 160 200 290 270 280
5.5 170 320 320 330 310
6.0 210 370 340 360 340
6.5 210 390 360 430 350
7.0 210 410 365 460 350
7.5 180 400 365 460 340
rpms TT T78 t04e t04s 350tt
2.0 040 040 040 040 060
2.5 060 050 070 050 090
3.0 100 080 100 070 140
3.5 120 100 150 110 170
4.0 140 120 210 170 190
4.5 150 150 260 250 220
5.0 160 200 290 270 280
5.5 170 320 320 330 310
6.0 210 370 340 360 340
6.5 210 390 360 430 350
7.0 210 410 365 460 350
7.5 180 400 365 460 340
Someone help me read them..
here they are :
2000 RPM 060
2500 RPM 100
3000 RPM 150
3500 RPM 190
4000 RPM 210
4500 RPM 240
5000 RPM 300
5500 RPM 330
6000 RPM 360
6500 RPM 390
7000 RPM 410
7500 RPM 430
Whats the end number mean and are these numbers good?
08-25-01, 10:43 AM
#11
Originally posted by Want2race i got some numbers like that in my box with my highflows..omeone help me read them..here they are :
2000 RPM 060
2500 RPM 100
3000 RPM 150
3500 RPM 190
4000 RPM 210
4500 RPM 240
5000 RPM 300
5500 RPM 330
6000 RPM 360
6500 RPM 390
7000 RPM 410
7500 RPM 430
Whats the end number mean and are these numbers good? [/B]
2000 RPM 060
2500 RPM 100
3000 RPM 150
3500 RPM 190
4000 RPM 210
4500 RPM 240
5000 RPM 300
5500 RPM 330
6000 RPM 360
6500 RPM 390
7000 RPM 410
7500 RPM 430
Whats the end number mean and are these numbers good? [/B]
Ken
"94 White, Red Leather
www.nopistons.com
08-25-01, 09:15 PM
#12
Bigger and better things
all the **** thats in the sig....
But the fmic and the aic are not installed....
The fmic needs to be thrown away in the next few days...
The AiC will be soldin favour of a pfc of similair...
I need the mp and an aftermarket catback for some serious power...
It felt fast.. Could walk sidewayz by mashing the gas and makes a killer whining sound
But the fmic and the aic are not installed....
The fmic needs to be thrown away in the next few days...
The AiC will be soldin favour of a pfc of similair...
I need the mp and an aftermarket catback for some serious power...
It felt fast.. Could walk sidewayz by mashing the gas and makes a killer whining sound
08-26-01, 12:30 AM
#13
inteligent extratarestril
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Originally posted by gmonsen
ken. this is probably not a good way to think about the streetability issue. you have to drive the cars to know whether they are streetable or not. the numbers won't tell you that. i think you may have my comparison graph of various single turbos. depending on how you tune them and the porting and many other things, the power comes on at various rpm levels. but the power numbers by rpm won't tell you whether there's an "unstreetable" rush of power or not. my car (t78) comes on very smoothly. if you floor it, there is a rush of power around 5-6000 rpm that gets pretty nuts by about 8000 rpm, but i want that. but even with that, its much smoother than a highly modded twin. they have a notchiness to them at the secondary crossover that's increasingly noticeable as you mod them more. also, most highly modded twins are "cranky". many have stumbling, missing, backfiring problems that i don't have. it doesn't come easily though. it takes a lot of tuning and rethinking of the exhaust, the ignition, the settings on the rrfpr, and on and on to get it the way you want it. -gordon
ken. this is probably not a good way to think about the streetability issue. you have to drive the cars to know whether they are streetable or not. the numbers won't tell you that. i think you may have my comparison graph of various single turbos. depending on how you tune them and the porting and many other things, the power comes on at various rpm levels. but the power numbers by rpm won't tell you whether there's an "unstreetable" rush of power or not. my car (t78) comes on very smoothly. if you floor it, there is a rush of power around 5-6000 rpm that gets pretty nuts by about 8000 rpm, but i want that. but even with that, its much smoother than a highly modded twin. they have a notchiness to them at the secondary crossover that's increasingly noticeable as you mod them more. also, most highly modded twins are "cranky". many have stumbling, missing, backfiring problems that i don't have. it doesn't come easily though. it takes a lot of tuning and rethinking of the exhaust, the ignition, the settings on the rrfpr, and on and on to get it the way you want it. -gordon
its not the twin's that is at fault its the ECU.
modded twins on a haltech make for a pretty formidable car.
I by no means think twins are that great but for a road only or road and sometimes track car they are pretty hard to beat, if i could figure out a good twins system on my 13BT i would have it rigged up believe me.
08-26-01, 03:04 AM
#14
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a good example of stock twins set up is www.ricemobile.net
or is it .com?
whateva it is, it moves, with stock twins
or is it .com?
whateva it is, it moves, with stock twins
08-26-01, 04:19 AM
#15
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T2 dude, those are stock twins running non sequentially.
but Jay's dyno figures are some of the ones that came to mind, twins with a haltech efi system
but Jay's dyno figures are some of the ones that came to mind, twins with a haltech efi system
08-26-01, 07:00 AM
#16
Bigger and better things
my primary and secondary are different sizes... They wouldnt work well non-seq.. It would still retain a somewhat sequential feel..
They are ball bearings and seem to make some good power...
Next mod... Motec !
They are ball bearings and seem to make some good power...
Next mod... Motec !
08-28-01, 10:23 PM
#18
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streetable?
I think if you're talking "streetable" you want to go back to the magazine articles mentioned earlier, and plot some torque curves.
I'm old school: the flatter (and higher the torque curve, the better off you are. Eye-popping HP numbers for 2000 rpm (between 5500 and 7500), IMO, should be reserved for special applications where track-specific gear ratios can keep the motor in the "happy zone".
Most roadracing tracks have a hairpin corner.
All best,
Steve C.
I'm old school: the flatter (and higher
the torque curve, the better off you are. Eye-popping HP numbers for 2000 rpm (between 5500 and 7500), IMO, should be reserved for special applications where track-specific gear ratios can keep the motor in the "happy zone".Most roadracing tracks have a hairpin corner.
All best,
Steve C.
08-30-01, 10:13 AM
#19
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Plotted HP numbers
Just for fun, I plotted the HP numbers. If you can get me the torque numbers in a similar format (plain text) we can plot those, and have something a bit more meaningful.
See
http://www.se-rx7.com/images/hpcurves1.gif
Steve C.
See
http://www.se-rx7.com/images/hpcurves1.gif
Steve C.
08-30-01, 02:32 PM
#21
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Obviously there's nothing like actually driving a car, but to get the best idea of what it might feel like you might want to plot torque curves since that's what you'll actually feel.
