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still in mock-up stage on my efr 6758 setup. Just switched to SXE covers for better flow. Can’t really finalize the mock-up and start making the manifold yet. I thought the internal gates would save me a lot of trouble and space, but I didn’t realize how much room the actuators take up (and specifically where they take up that room, e.g. right where I have the least space against the shock tower on the rear turbo). Since it will be so tight, I need to wait a couple months for the new full race electronic wastegate kit to become available, otherwise I run the risk of thinking it will fit but then having a clearance issue. The B2 frame and garret kits are in stock (I’ll be getting one for my other car that has an EFR 9280), but still a couple months out for the B1 frame kit.
electronic actuators kit, excited to see them launch this. also came out with a control unit so you can control via PWM.
Last edited by TwinCharged RX7; 02-01-23 at 07:07 PM.
kind of surprised you did it for that reason; not just the actuators, but also the overall length increase. With dedicated individual exhaust pipes, external WG would seem easier, but glad to see somebody finally moving to electronic WG. My general concern would be if the internals are going to have sufficient flow capability to avoid creep. Look forward to your results though.
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Yeah. I really just didn't consider how much extra width they have. They are definitely long too, but in my engine bay, especially with the chase bays radiator, I have room for the length.
It's kind of too late now. The electronic gate stuff costs a crap ton of money, and switching to a different housing would be tough because i don't think there is much of a market for the housing alone unless someone else is piecing together a turbo. I already have 2 efr covers that are likely paper weights at this point (I have them listed on eBay for fairly cheap).
Thanks for the good wishes. There is a decent chance this never completes haha.
I've been thinking of ways to free up space. I may try mocking up the rear turbo as the lower turbo and the front on top. Haven't played around with that yet. Having the rear turbo down low, may give more clearance for the actuator if I position the inlet in a way that puts the actuator toward the ground. The actuator location is 100% dependent on the inlet to the turbine, it's about 90 degrees or perpendicular to the inlet.
no sir, I pointed out your mistake in the other thread, which you conveniently chose to ignore. The same statement applies there; your dyno number is irrelevant to the corrected compressor flow value. That defines it better than any dyno ever will.
the actual compressor operating pressure will be higher than manifold boost pressure and this has to be plotted out on the compressor map to truly understand where it’s operating at. So for it to reach 45-50 psig manifold boost pressure, the compressor outlet pressure is going to be a higher pressure value. I don’t know what those backpressures will stack up to on your setup, but we can call it zero even though it won’t be:
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in reality the end point on either line would be higher and further to the left if it were to actually become into being.
I must be an idiot though, because what you’re posting makes no sense at all.
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no sir, I pointed out your mistake in the other thread, which you conveniently chose to ignore. The same statement applies there; your dyno number is irrelevant to the corrected compressor flow value. That defines it better than any dyno ever will.
the actual compressor operating pressure will be higher than manifold boost pressure and this has to be plotted out on the compressor map to truly understand where it’s operating at. So for it to reach 45-50 psig manifold boost pressure, the compressor outlet pressure is going to be a higher pressure value. I don’t know what those backpressures will stack up to on your setup, but we can call it zero even though it won’t be:
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in reality the end point on either line would be higher and further to the left if it were to actually become into being.
I must be an idiot though, because what you’re posting makes no sense at all.
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He has been tuning cars and maxing out turbos on water injection, e85, race fuel for a couple of decades that I know of and gets paid by of lot of people to do it. His turbo selections are based on real world experience. Unlike many others he regularly took the time to share data back in the day too.
I understand that and am not challenging anything you’re saying. Which is perhaps a misunderstanding on his part too.
But please explain or correct me then on how choosing this particular compressor for the 45 - 50 psig range is proper compared to 40 psig give or take a few or less?
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Because I just happen to be familiar with this particular compressor map, saw what he posted, went back to look and confirm, and then posted what I was seeing. My thinking being maybe he just misspoke or possibly I wasn’t seeing it clearly.
That comment was also qualified by stating that perhaps the whp goal was lower than I had expected. Because my goal expectation for two of these turbos would be in excess of 1000 whp. Lofty territory indeed, but he’s a master just as you stated.
Which I’ve both misspoken or just didn’t understand properly many times myself, maybe even here now. Only to instead be mocked and called an idiot rather than the master taking a minute to school the pupil for all the class to see and clearly demonstrate why and where I went wrong.
The point of emphasis on my part being that the G-series turbos have some unique situations. One of which is that they have the capability to be driven past the max shaft speed limit. If operated there (referenced as the Zoom-Zoom-Boom Line - 125,000 rpm on this map) the aluminum compressor wheel isn’t strong enough to take the centrifugal force and *will* fail at some point.
I’m sure he’ll have a speed sensor and safety limit in place not to go there. Yet even this idiot can see that 50 psig boost is potentially less whp given the shape of the compressor map in that region. It kind of makes sense that nitrous might be needed to get there.
Because it seems certain to be operating in the far LH surge area due to how steep the operating line there would have to be. Which that type of strategy is way beyond my understanding for sure.
Yet unlike some people, I don’t fear being an idiot; let alone being called one, if there is something to be learned and resulting in me becoming less of one.
In summary; this idiot isn’t comprehending what the master claims is the goal. Where is my stupid and useless brain going wrong?
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I understand that and am not challenging anything you’re saying. Which is perhaps a misunderstanding on his part too.
But please explain or correct me then on how choosing this particular compressor for the 45 - 50 psig range is proper compared to 40 psig give or take a few or less?
.
Because I just happen to be familiar with this particular compressor map, saw what he posted, went back to look and confirm, and then posted what I was seeing. My thinking being maybe he just misspoke or possibly I wasn’t seeing it clearly.
That comment was also qualified by stating that perhaps the whp goal was lower than I had expected. Because my goal expectation for two of these turbos would be in excess of 1000 whp. Lofty territory indeed, but he’s a master just as you stated.
Which I’ve both misspoken or just didn’t understand properly many times myself, maybe even here now. Only to instead be mocked and called an idiot rather than the master taking a minute to school the pupil for all the class to see and clearly demonstrate why and where I went wrong.
The point of emphasis on my part being that the G-series turbos have some unique situations. One of which is that they have the capability to be driven past the max shaft speed limit. If operated there (referenced as the Zoom-Zoom-Boom Line - 125,000 rpm on this map) the aluminum compressor wheel isn’t strong enough to take the centrifugal force and *will* fail at some point.
I’m sure he’ll have a speed sensor and safety limit in place not to go there. Yet even this idiot can see that 50 psig boost is potentially less whp given the shape of the compressor map in that region. It kind of makes sense that nitrous might be needed to get there.
Because it seems certain to be operating in the far LH surge area due to how steep the operating line there would have to be. Which that type of strategy is way beyond my understanding for sure.
Yet unlike some people, I don’t fear being an idiot; let alone being called one, if there is something to be learned and resulting in me becoming less of one.
In summary; this idiot isn’t comprehending what the master claims is the goal. Where is my stupid and useless brain going wrong?
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here are some pics of Mazda's effort.
its a Bridge port 13B, 7.5:1 rotors, 3mm seals, Dry Sump. a pair of HT-20 HItachi turbos. they claim 530hp/600ps at around 8500rpm at 15psi, which isn't bad for 1985
injection is Bosch mechanical, on a weber style intake, and ignition is the competition setup, so locked distributor with CDI
this is the FC installation, which has a different turbo manifold (the GTP car is like a 917, two turbos behind the engine with the turbines facing each other),
and the FC has a water to air IC where the battery would have been, GTP had that and an air to air IC.
also check out the radiator, its easily 5" thick...
i think i see a metering pump as well, but with steel lines?
We have had it on the dyno, we made 877@30psi of boost. Had issues with the intercooler so we are addressing that and will be back for more.
The car made 77HP more with the twin g40s over the 7685 precision it had previously on the same boost. Only real difference we could see in terms of data was 15psi less EMAP than we saw previously.
how am I chasing anything, I was waiting patiently and there was little to nothing on any of your postings anywhere since the fortnight comment and I was only curious about your progress
no need to be defensive or prove anything to someone you insist is an idiot, so just take a deep breath and chill man, even if I am an idiot I’m not your enemy nor do my comments or opinions have to be taken so seriously, wishing you all the best in everything you do.
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how am I chasing anything, I was waiting patiently and there was little to nothing on any of your postings anywhere since the fortnight comment and I was only curious about your progress
no need to be defensive or prove anything to someone you insist is an idiot, so just take a deep breath and chill man, even if I am an idiot I’m not your enemy nor do my comments or opinions have to be taken so seriously, wishing you all the best in everything you do.
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ok, maybe we can now have a rational discussion, because reviewing the situation again I was expecting it to just be a typo or something
Originally Posted by rx72c
I will know in the next fortnight if it needs nitrous. We are hoping to make power between 7-10000rpm and try and make 45-50psi of boost
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
I understand that and am not challenging anything you’re saying. Which is perhaps a misunderstanding on his part too.
But please explain or correct me then on how choosing this particular compressor for the 45 - 50 psig range is proper compared to 40 psig give or take a few or less?
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Because I just happen to be familiar with this particular compressor map, saw what he posted, went back to look and confirm, and then posted what I was seeing. My thinking being maybe he just misspoke or possibly I wasn’t seeing it clearly.
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to be clear, I’m not an idiot just on somebody’s say so.
Because the recent 877whp @ 30 psig result to date, which at a minimum is close to 60 lbs/min per turbo and now added to the previous compressor map image reply-quoted above (lower blue circle), is serving to demonstrate the reason I raised the question.
IMO adding another 1Bar or more of boost without exceeding the turbo overspeed limit is not likely possible given that the 45 psig boost line runs into the overspeed limit line @ 67 lbs/min (higher blue circle). Exceeding 40 psig is a bit iffy at best …
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02-01-23, 06:41 PM
