rsa

Where can I get a Turbo Wrap kit to insulate the turbine housing for my T78? Someone told me Summit has them, but I can't find them. Thanks.

BASTARD

iTrader: (4)

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...tegoryId=20795

pbrx7

what are the pros and cons of using a wrap? ive been thinking about it.

Nuvolari

iTrader: (4)

Gotham Racing Turbo Heat Blanket $139.00




fiberglass composite Turbo Heat Blanket isolates your turbocharger from the engine compartment, keeping the superheated air where it belongs. Insulating the turbo keeps exhaust gasses moving at top speed, improving turbo response and retaining boost pressure. This product will fit up to a Turbonetics T-66/GReddy T-88 Turbine Housing.

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

The Gotham turbo blanket is awesome after seeing it in action.

Don't waste time on those other wrap and blanket options, the DEI is only good for a single use meaning if you gotta take it off it ain't going back on and for that first and only install it's a royal pain in the *** and will likely get thrown in the trash before the install is finished. I ran a DEI for awhile and never will again.

cripsR6

A friend and I have used the Thermotec insulating kit on his Wrx. It is a pain in the *** and will be sloppy unless you pay attention to detail, but I think he paid about $80 for it and made two blankets out of it with some material left over. The only reason he made a second one is because the first one was trashed and couldnt be used after he removed it. I will prolly end up with the Gotham blanket for my FD after I close on a house and get my priorities straight.

In my opinion insulating the blanket, and wrapping your downpipe(and manifold if you can) is a no-brainer. I've got my downpipe and the runners on my midpipe wrapped and the difference heat wise is highly noticeable. I can put my hand on the downpipe after the car has been running without getting burned, and the same goes for the hotside of my friends turbo.

Old Slow Coach

Insulating the turbine will increase heat transfer to to a non-water cooled CHRA. Because of the increase in heat transfer, a turbo manufacturer will void the warranty when a heat coating has been applied to the turbine housing. It's my opinion that a water cooled CHRA will not be adversely affected, but a non-water cooled CHRA will be (bearings and seals will fail sooner from heat related stress). The oil going to the CHRA is primarily to lubricate, not to cool it (just like the engine).

atihun

You do know that about 40% of the cooling on the rotary is done through oil?

Old Slow Coach

I did not know that statisic. Knowing so now, I can say that cooling of the rotary is PRIMARILY done through water.


I stated that the PRIMARY purpose of the oil was to lubricate the CHRA. I'm right on this; I've personally spoken with an engineer at Turbonetics about the pros and cons of using heat blankets or ceramic coatings. The non-water cooled CHRAs (especially journal bearing types) fail sooner when heat transfer from the turbine housing is increased. I'm not saying it's going to fail the day after you cover the turbine, but theorhetically its lifespan will decrease. Why is so easy to theorize that it will spool faster if you don't let the heat dissapate, but it's such a stretch to believe that the housing will stay hotter longer and transfer heat through metal to metal contact with the CHRA? Covering the turbine housing will increase heat transfer to the CHRA. Oil alone is not enough to dissapate the increased heat transfer because that's how it was engineered. Oil could be if there was a large enough oil sump in the CHRA or greater flow through it or fins to radiate heat, but there aint. THere is virtually no sump and flow is typically limited by a -3 or -4 restrictor between it and the oil feed line. The thermal transfer rate of oil is not nearly as great as water/coolant.

atihun

I was not disagreeing that keeping heat in on an oil only CHRA is worse, however it is the primary way that it gets cooled. With oil and water that's a different story.

Edit... I guess I misread your post. In oil and water, yes the oil is not the primary.

atihun

When I bought my GT35R I was going to have the turbine housing ceramic coated as well. The turbo is water cooled, however I was told that it's not good for the ball bearing types to keep in that much heat.

I still want to keep radiated heat to a minimum so I went with one of these from ATP:

Old Slow Coach

I agree with you that on an non-water cooled CHRA, oil is the primary coolant. I just don't think it's adequate anymore once you start increasing heat transfer. Sorry I'm sounding a bit defensive.... I probably misread your first comments, too! It's all good!!

pluto

It's interesting to point out that heat will reduce the life span of a turbo. I do however wonder what a typical life span of a turbo really is? 1 million miles? 500k miles? These turbos were orginally designed to operate in (continous high boost(30psi) and high mileage for semi trucks) So if you take away 50% life span of a 500k miles turbo, Do you think that 250K miles is still last longer than the life of a engine? I think some of you may be over cautious on this life span deal.

Old Slow Coach

I think I may be overly cautious, and I think you may be overly optimistic about the 500k mile turbo. The turbos you speak of may have been designed to run on continuous boost, but they are running a lot cooler on the diesel exhaust. Heat breaks down the lubricating qualities of the oil and coking becomes contamination at the bearings. Performance shops make a lot of money off guys who didn't get the life out of the turbo they could have.

pluto

I agree with you totally but alot of wear has to do with the owner not spending the time to let the turbo cool down and/or letting it heat up before boosting causing pre-mature failures. There're other factors too (including custom modifications that most aftermarket turbo company do) but a turbo (itself) when operating at normal conditions should last at least 100k miles. This is assuming that the turbo wasn't overly spin and/or abuse like I mentioned above.

SmogSUX

iTrader: (12)

So, it's not good for the turbo....I was thinking about putting a heat blanket around my bnr stage 3 turbo, then using exhaust wrap on my downpipe.. just because it's soo damn hot around there.

Old Slow Coach

A heat shield like the one in the picture on page 1 could provide some benefits by reducing heat transfer to the intake manifold, but it won't reduce your under hood temps. Go ahead and wrap your DP without worry about affecting the turbo. If you do wrap your turbine housing, be extra diligent about cool down times! I'd make your next CHRA water cooled. The theory behind all of this is impossible to argue with, but tabulating the real world affects is more difficult. I used to sell mounted bearings to OEMs in the air handling industry, so I consider myself well educated on factors that decrease bearing life. We would spec a bearing based on what they called the L10 life, which is where 90% of the bearings would still be servicable after operation in a controlled application.

I just did a quick search L10 life and found something useful for purposes of discussion (never mind the fact that the following is linear bearing info, because all these factors apply to rotational bearings as well)

__________________________________________________ _
Linear Bearings: Load/Life Calculation


Linear bearings undergo reciprocating rather than rotary motion so that accelerations are much higher than typically experienced by rotary bearings. Since linear bearings have become important primarily as a result of robotic automation, one must often refer to manufacturer's literature for load/life formulas.

What follows is one way to calculate the life of a linear slide bearing. The symbol L is used to represent the rated life. It is defined as the length of travel endured by the slide under a specified condition. In reality, slide life varies from one slide to another, so that a rating referred to as L10 is typically used in industry. The L10 rating is defined as the length of travel that 90% of all slides (of the same model) will complete before the first sign of failure.

The following factors are used in the calculation of load/life predictions:

1. Factor for Speed

where V = the speed of the relative carriage/base movement in inches/minute
(use the peak speed value).
m = 3 for ball slides, 3.3 for roller slides.
NOTE: When the speed is less than 30 inches/minute, fs = 1.

2. Factor for Temperature

Excessive temperature can reduce the hardness of load-bearing slide components and lower the life of the slide due to wear and fatigue. We define the factor for temperature of the slide as "ft" and values are tabulated in the following table. Please note that ft is listed assuming that polymer ball separators are not used. Delrin separators can typically only withstand temperatures less than 180ºF.

Temperature (°F) Factor for Temperature "ft" Hardened Carbon Steel Contacting Elements Factor for Temperature "ft" Stainless Steel Contacting Elements
220 1 1
300 .9 1
400 .75 .9
500 not recommended .75

3. Factor for Load Type

The load endured by a linear slide bearing is a combination of variable forces, vibrations, impacts, occasional loads, etc. We use the load type factor "fw" to account for these varying forces. The values for "fw" are tabulated in the following table.

Load Condition Value of "fw"
Smooth Motion without Impacts 1 to 1.5
Motion with Significant Shock Impacts 2 to 3


Using the factors just defined, the L10 life rating can be expressed as follows:


where L10 = the life of the slide at 90% of reliability (as defined above in inches)
C = catalog "load capacity" of the slide in lbf. (which is a load that corresponds to an L10 life of 10 million inches, provided the factors fs, ft and fw are equal to 1.
Pc = calculated effective load that the slide experiences in lbf. (fs, ft and fw are factors as described above.)
m = 3 for ball slides, or 3.3 for roller slides.

4. Factor for other than 90% Reliability

If other than the 90% reliability is required, the known value of L10 shall be multiplied by a reliability factor "fr" such that:

Ln = fr × L10
where Ln = rated life at the reliability of K% (n = 100 - K).
The values of the factor "fr" are presented in the following table.

Reliability, % "Ln"
rated life "fr"
reliability factor
50 L50 5.00
90 L10 1.00
95 L5 0.62
97 L3 0.44
99 L1 0.21

Adding the "fr" factor in front of the previous equation, the L10 life rating can be expressed as follows, with each factor remaining as before.

___________________________________________


The "RX" factor.... look at #2 above... see how the multiplier for 220f is 1? and the multiplier for 400f is .75? We don't like to run our motors over 220f, and our CHRAs don't like it either! These turbos on the applications they were originally designed for probably had design operating temps at 220f or increased service factor was applied in specing out something larger that would handle greater loads.

ninjarx7

Here are some links to Summit Racing:

http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...=egnsearch.asp
http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...=egnsearch.asp

If you were looking for other Thermo-Tec products, just go to Summing Racing website and search for the keyword "Thermo-Tec".

Old Slow Coach

This is product looks the same as what I use:http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIAB2/category60_1.htm

If you read down the page you will see their pros/cons and recommendation for use on non water cooled CHRAs.

pbrx7

the problem i am having is the turbo is heating my carb up so much. cant touch the secondary side of my holley after it has ran awhile. thanks for the replies. ill think ill be wrapping it soon.

jdurangosgirl

I bet my 2003 Cobra can beat you if we raced them. Im 51-2. Who want it?

Whizbang

random......

BoostedRex

Who is this idiot? Go to the lounge already would you?

kuroi FD

Lol thats the second random post in the wrong section. BANNN!!