Turbo options 600rwhp + ???
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Joined: Aug 2012
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From: Netherlands
i already have meth. i've only seen dyno chart of peoples putting efr 9180 on bridgeported engines so far.. no dyno's or reviews of someone on a large streetported engine with that turbo that i've seen.
I dont to wait till 4500 rpm for the turbo to start doing its work
I dont to wait till 4500 rpm for the turbo to start doing its work
eplusz
I dont to wait till 4500 rpm for the turbo to start doing its work
Well, that is just the physics of a turbo compressor able to make over 600rwhp on a rotary.
You just can't expect a large compressor to be able to make high boost at very low flow rates (you run into the surge line).
-----------
With the turbos available today I believe you are going to have to go sequential twin turbo if you want 400ftlbs torque before 4,000rpm and over 550rwhp on a rotary (basically anything bigger than what a EFR 8374 bumping the surge line can do).
Displacement (20B) or porting with overlap will help move the power to the low rpms since the turbo will be asked to flow more per psi boost at any given rpm (operating further Right of the surgeline).
Sadly, I think getting that kind of low end power is still too much to ask out of a EFR 9180 and neither displacement or porting will help the peak power available from an EFR 8374 (compressor already maxed out on flow with a streetport).
I dont to wait till 4500 rpm for the turbo to start doing its work
Well, that is just the physics of a turbo compressor able to make over 600rwhp on a rotary.
You just can't expect a large compressor to be able to make high boost at very low flow rates (you run into the surge line).
-----------
With the turbos available today I believe you are going to have to go sequential twin turbo if you want 400ftlbs torque before 4,000rpm and over 550rwhp on a rotary (basically anything bigger than what a EFR 8374 bumping the surge line can do).
Displacement (20B) or porting with overlap will help move the power to the low rpms since the turbo will be asked to flow more per psi boost at any given rpm (operating further Right of the surgeline).
Sadly, I think getting that kind of low end power is still too much to ask out of a EFR 9180 and neither displacement or porting will help the peak power available from an EFR 8374 (compressor already maxed out on flow with a streetport).
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 82
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From: Netherlands
eplusz
I dont to wait till 4500 rpm for the turbo to start doing its work
Well, that is just the physics of a turbo compressor able to make over 600rwhp on a rotary.
You just can't expect a large compressor to be able to make high boost at very low flow rates (you run into the surge line).
-----------
With the turbos available today I believe you are going to have to go sequential twin turbo if you want 400ftlbs torque before 4,000rpm and over 550rwhp on a rotary (basically anything bigger than what a EFR 8374 bumping the surge line can do).
Displacement (20B) or porting with overlap will help move the power to the low rpms since the turbo will be asked to flow more per psi boost at any given rpm (operating further Right of the surgeline).
Sadly, I think getting that kind of low end power is still too much to ask out of a EFR 9180 and neither displacement or porting will help the peak power available from an EFR 8374 (compressor already maxed out on flow with a streetport).
I dont to wait till 4500 rpm for the turbo to start doing its work
Well, that is just the physics of a turbo compressor able to make over 600rwhp on a rotary.
You just can't expect a large compressor to be able to make high boost at very low flow rates (you run into the surge line).
-----------
With the turbos available today I believe you are going to have to go sequential twin turbo if you want 400ftlbs torque before 4,000rpm and over 550rwhp on a rotary (basically anything bigger than what a EFR 8374 bumping the surge line can do).
Displacement (20B) or porting with overlap will help move the power to the low rpms since the turbo will be asked to flow more per psi boost at any given rpm (operating further Right of the surgeline).
Sadly, I think getting that kind of low end power is still too much to ask out of a EFR 9180 and neither displacement or porting will help the peak power available from an EFR 8374 (compressor already maxed out on flow with a streetport).
Does someone on here know of people that were able to put 2 EFR on a 13b ? like a 9180 and a smaller efr?? if so what smaller efr would be suggested to work with the 9180??
Thinking out loud:
thought 1: "I could sell the 8374 and get 2 SXE's for a bit extra money and keep the wastegates i already have but make a new mani and DP"
thought 2: "Sell the 8374 get a 9180 and a smaller efr (??) both iwg and sell my 2 turbosmart gates, manifold and DP and recover some money. Then let my welder make a new mani and DP, what wouldn't be a problem.. i have a welder here that's more then capable to get the job done"
Impact on my setup would be minimal as i have the CX racing LIM 2xID1000cc & 2x2000cc i could add another 2 ID2000cc if necessary. I currently have a Walbro 450gts could sell that and get 2x bosch 044's
Thanks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,279
Likes: 728
From: Florence, Alabama
there are no free lunches w re to turbos.
if you are talking 9180 EFR (94 pounds) and 9180 SXE (97 pounds) you will be looking at 4XXX before full boost. my EFR9180 experience
which is by no means tuned out supports this.
as i recall you are looking for 500-600 hp. it therefore doesn't come down to just the 9180 as an option.
my recommendation would be the SXE 64. (13009097008).
it will do 80 pounds but is the smallest compressor in the SXE line to do 80.
(7.178 sq inches V 7.994 for the 9180)
the SXE 64 has a 54 trim which favors early flow over top end. the cherry on the top is that it is available w a 76 hotside wheel which is mucho easier
to swing than the 80 mm which is on the 66 and 69.
if you are talking 9180 EFR (94 pounds) and 9180 SXE (97 pounds) you will be looking at 4XXX before full boost. my EFR9180 experience
which is by no means tuned out supports this.
as i recall you are looking for 500-600 hp. it therefore doesn't come down to just the 9180 as an option.
my recommendation would be the SXE 64. (13009097008).
it will do 80 pounds but is the smallest compressor in the SXE line to do 80.
(7.178 sq inches V 7.994 for the 9180)
the SXE 64 has a 54 trim which favors early flow over top end. the cherry on the top is that it is available w a 76 hotside wheel which is mucho easier
to swing than the 80 mm which is on the 66 and 69.
Last edited by Howard Coleman; Jan 1, 2016 at 08:30 AM.
Hi
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: Rochester, MN
Hi
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: Rochester, MN
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...-dyno-1082295/
Keep in mind this was on this was on a Dyno Dynamic's, which reads lower than a Dynojet. It was also on a tired motor.
Keep in mind this was on this was on a Dyno Dynamic's, which reads lower than a Dynojet. It was also on a tired motor.
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 82
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From: Netherlands
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...-dyno-1082295/
Keep in mind this was on this was on a Dyno Dynamic's, which reads lower than a Dynojet. It was also on a tired motor.
Keep in mind this was on this was on a Dyno Dynamic's, which reads lower than a Dynojet. It was also on a tired motor.
Wouldn't react as fast as the 8374 but would be a blast to drive and reactive nonetheless (i think)
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 82
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From: Netherlands
An EFR with a 74 turbine would be a good idea but don't see them do it anytime soon for some reason. I'm really considering running twin efr's. 9180 and a 7163 or something similar like twin SXE's.
Would be a blast to drive I think and a challenge to complete
Would be a blast to drive I think and a challenge to complete
They already offer a EFR 9174, they are offering the AL bearing housing in middle of January.
This might be a great option, with a .92 IWG option. spool quick and big power.
They are also making an AL bearing housing which is 5lbs lighter than the iron.
9174 won't spool any faster by (boost by rpm) than a 9180 on the rotary since the limiting factor is already the compressor surge on the 8174 and 9180.
It will have better boost response (how quickly max boost per rpm is achieved after throttle input).
That improved response is also great, but does not help low rpm power potential at all.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,279
Likes: 728
From: Florence, Alabama
just received a clarification re what should be one of the more popular SXE turbos...
the "64" (actually 64.47) turbo is listed in the 2016 catalog as having both the 76 and 80 mm hotside wheels.
p/n for the 64 w the 76 is 13009097008
p/n for the 64 w the 80 is 13009097055
i like the 64 because it will do a legitimate 80 pounds/630 rotary hp yet has a small-ish 7.17sq inch compressor. it should be able to make killer power but in a very spool friendly efficient package.
as to whether it should be bought w a 76 or 80 hotside... i compare it to my GT4094r which is a wonderful legacy turbo. i made 403 rwhp SAE at 5000 rpm w it so it produces really good midrange and one of my motors did 614 SAE at 25/26 psi so it can rock top end.
the GT4094r swings a cast 8.175 compressor w a 68/77 hotside which is 6.423 area.
the GT4094r and BW SXE 64 are both 80 pound turbos and since the GT4094r works very well w a 6.4 inch hotwheel the 64 SXE should work very well w the
newer design 76 which is 6.31. the 80 mm is 7.15 and should add some lag comparatively.
i am in the final stages of my clutch swap (going to a Mcloed RST double disc) and
shortly will be evaluating the SXE 62 which is now on my car.
Howard
the "64" (actually 64.47) turbo is listed in the 2016 catalog as having both the 76 and 80 mm hotside wheels.
p/n for the 64 w the 76 is 13009097008
p/n for the 64 w the 80 is 13009097055
i like the 64 because it will do a legitimate 80 pounds/630 rotary hp yet has a small-ish 7.17sq inch compressor. it should be able to make killer power but in a very spool friendly efficient package.
as to whether it should be bought w a 76 or 80 hotside... i compare it to my GT4094r which is a wonderful legacy turbo. i made 403 rwhp SAE at 5000 rpm w it so it produces really good midrange and one of my motors did 614 SAE at 25/26 psi so it can rock top end.
the GT4094r swings a cast 8.175 compressor w a 68/77 hotside which is 6.423 area.
the GT4094r and BW SXE 64 are both 80 pound turbos and since the GT4094r works very well w a 6.4 inch hotwheel the 64 SXE should work very well w the
newer design 76 which is 6.31. the 80 mm is 7.15 and should add some lag comparatively.
i am in the final stages of my clutch swap (going to a Mcloed RST double disc) and
shortly will be evaluating the SXE 62 which is now on my car.
Howard
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: Netherlands
just received a clarification re what should be one of the more popular SXE turbos...
the "64" (actually 64.47) turbo is listed in the 2016 catalog as having both the 76 and 80 mm hotside wheels.
p/n for the 64 w the 76 is 13009097008
p/n for the 64 w the 80 is 13009097055
i like the 64 because it will do a legitimate 80 pounds/630 rotary hp yet has a small-ish 7.17sq inch compressor. it should be able to make killer power but in a very spool friendly efficient package.
as to whether it should be bought w a 76 or 80 hotside... i compare it to my GT4094r which is a wonderful legacy turbo. i made 403 rwhp SAE at 5000 rpm w it so it produces really good midrange and one of my motors did 614 SAE at 25/26 psi so it can rock top end.
the GT4094r swings a cast 8.175 compressor w a 68/77 hotside which is 6.423 area.
the GT4094r and BW SXE 64 are both 80 pound turbos and since the GT4094r works very well w a 6.4 inch hotwheel the 64 SXE should work very well w the
newer design 76 which is 6.31. the 80 mm is 7.15 and should add some lag comparatively.
i am in the final stages of my clutch swap (going to a Mcloed RST double disc) and
shortly will be evaluating the SXE 62 which is now on my car.
Howard
the "64" (actually 64.47) turbo is listed in the 2016 catalog as having both the 76 and 80 mm hotside wheels.
p/n for the 64 w the 76 is 13009097008
p/n for the 64 w the 80 is 13009097055
i like the 64 because it will do a legitimate 80 pounds/630 rotary hp yet has a small-ish 7.17sq inch compressor. it should be able to make killer power but in a very spool friendly efficient package.
as to whether it should be bought w a 76 or 80 hotside... i compare it to my GT4094r which is a wonderful legacy turbo. i made 403 rwhp SAE at 5000 rpm w it so it produces really good midrange and one of my motors did 614 SAE at 25/26 psi so it can rock top end.
the GT4094r swings a cast 8.175 compressor w a 68/77 hotside which is 6.423 area.
the GT4094r and BW SXE 64 are both 80 pound turbos and since the GT4094r works very well w a 6.4 inch hotwheel the 64 SXE should work very well w the
newer design 76 which is 6.31. the 80 mm is 7.15 and should add some lag comparatively.
i am in the final stages of my clutch swap (going to a Mcloed RST double disc) and
shortly will be evaluating the SXE 62 which is now on my car.
Howard
As for me.. i decided to sell the EFR 8374 and get the 9174, NOT going for twin SXE's because that is going to set me back a few months as i need to sell my current setup (mani, turbo, gates) and buy new parts and fab everything up again (IC piping, DP etc..). I don't really want that since i'm almost finished now.. and i think the 9174 will do just fine on my streetported engine.
The SXE turbo's are great nonetheless.. if i didn't have an EFR now i would have bought that instead and save me lots of $$$ for similar performance!
Eager to know how your SXE will perform Howard!! keep us updated!!
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 32
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From: MN
count just do this and keep it cheap and reliable AF I'm on this route, love it
I'm using a HX55
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 82
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From: Netherlands
650-HP 4.8l LS With a Single-Turbo Setup - Mini Mouse, Part 3
count just do this and keep it cheap and reliable AF I'm on this route, love it
I'm using a HX55
count just do this and keep it cheap and reliable AF I'm on this route, love it
I'm using a HX55
There is a 589rwhp dyno inside here on one of our 9180 EWG system;
BorgWarner EFR Rx-7 Turbo System
The above tune was on pump gas and meth( too rich on the top end as you can see in the graph) @ 25psi. It would easily clear 600rwhp once brough out of the 9 AFRs.
There is another 9180 graph below( 9180 vs S366) @ 20psi on pump/meth full bridge. I believe this one is also with our FD twinscroll manifold. Full pulls, no RPM however.
BorgWarner EFR turbochargers are living up to the hype | TurboSource
RicShaw Racing made 500rwhp on a dynodynamics( 15% lower than a dynojoet) with a semi pport, 9180 IWG , shorty IWG manifold, E85, and EFR 9180 @ 20psi. Once he sends me the full graph with RPM I will post it...
BorgWarner EFR Rx-7 Turbo System
The above tune was on pump gas and meth( too rich on the top end as you can see in the graph) @ 25psi. It would easily clear 600rwhp once brough out of the 9 AFRs.
There is another 9180 graph below( 9180 vs S366) @ 20psi on pump/meth full bridge. I believe this one is also with our FD twinscroll manifold. Full pulls, no RPM however.
BorgWarner EFR turbochargers are living up to the hype | TurboSource
RicShaw Racing made 500rwhp on a dynodynamics( 15% lower than a dynojoet) with a semi pport, 9180 IWG , shorty IWG manifold, E85, and EFR 9180 @ 20psi. Once he sends me the full graph with RPM I will post it...
Then there's this guy.. on a rotary forum convincing people to swap to a v8
Actually, its an RX-7 club forum.
Granted, the thread title is "turbo options for 600rwhp" not "turbo & engine options for 600rwhp" nor "engine options for 600rwhp+
"...
Actually, its an RX-7 club forum.
Granted, the thread title is "turbo options for 600rwhp" not "turbo & engine options for 600rwhp" nor "engine options for 600rwhp+
"...
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: MN
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: MN
getting flamed for giving advise over here
if you read the OP he doesn't say much about keeping it rotary or anything much really so i just gave my $0.02 its what has worked for me and the route i took, its reliable, cheap and fast
Last edited by Nick Ritter; Jan 7, 2016 at 11:14 AM.
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 799
Likes: 3
From: Plymouth, MN
just received a clarification re what should be one of the more popular SXE turbos...
the "64" (actually 64.47) turbo is listed in the 2016 catalog as having both the 76 and 80 mm hotside wheels.
p/n for the 64 w the 76 is 13009097008
p/n for the 64 w the 80 is 13009097055
i like the 64 because it will do a legitimate 80 pounds/630 rotary hp yet has a small-ish 7.17sq inch compressor. it should be able to make killer power but in a very spool friendly efficient package.
as to whether it should be bought w a 76 or 80 hotside... i compare it to my GT4094r which is a wonderful legacy turbo. i made 403 rwhp SAE at 5000 rpm w it so it produces really good midrange and one of my motors did 614 SAE at 25/26 psi so it can rock top end.
the GT4094r swings a cast 8.175 compressor w a 68/77 hotside which is 6.423 area.
the GT4094r and BW SXE 64 are both 80 pound turbos and since the GT4094r works very well w a 6.4 inch hotwheel the 64 SXE should work very well w the
newer design 76 which is 6.31. the 80 mm is 7.15 and should add some lag comparatively.
i am in the final stages of my clutch swap (going to a Mcloed RST double disc) and
shortly will be evaluating the SXE 62 which is now on my car.
Howard
the "64" (actually 64.47) turbo is listed in the 2016 catalog as having both the 76 and 80 mm hotside wheels.
p/n for the 64 w the 76 is 13009097008
p/n for the 64 w the 80 is 13009097055
i like the 64 because it will do a legitimate 80 pounds/630 rotary hp yet has a small-ish 7.17sq inch compressor. it should be able to make killer power but in a very spool friendly efficient package.
as to whether it should be bought w a 76 or 80 hotside... i compare it to my GT4094r which is a wonderful legacy turbo. i made 403 rwhp SAE at 5000 rpm w it so it produces really good midrange and one of my motors did 614 SAE at 25/26 psi so it can rock top end.
the GT4094r swings a cast 8.175 compressor w a 68/77 hotside which is 6.423 area.
the GT4094r and BW SXE 64 are both 80 pound turbos and since the GT4094r works very well w a 6.4 inch hotwheel the 64 SXE should work very well w the
newer design 76 which is 6.31. the 80 mm is 7.15 and should add some lag comparatively.
i am in the final stages of my clutch swap (going to a Mcloed RST double disc) and
shortly will be evaluating the SXE 62 which is now on my car.
Howard
Thank you.
Chris
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,279
Likes: 728
From: Florence, Alabama
not all the SXE's are presently available but i have a very good source and pricing.
best suggestion is to call me so we can make sure re the specific app, second best is to email me @ howracer@gmail.c
Howard
best suggestion is to call me so we can make sure re the specific app, second best is to email me @ howracer@gmail.c
Howard
I posted the datalog from our shop FC car making 30 psi by 3975rpms on the street.. Its a large street ported S4 engine( 1st page of this thread).