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So I am compiling info to start my single turbo swap. I have searched without any results that I could find of value. I am looking for Turbo Manifold suggestions and maybe a little data on why a specific design is better.
Potential turbo I am looking at is BW S300 SXE 66. I would like to plumb the wastegate back into the DP. A lot of designs I see have dual or option for single wastegate options. Thinking that having one larger WG will make less heat and easier to plumb into the DP.
In looking around I see a handful of manifold options:
IRP- https://www.irperformance.com/produc...gle-turbo-kit/
I did see a few of his posts where he talks specifically about his advantages over cast- Heat, weight, equal length runners, etc. Ihor also has the option for single or dual WG.
Looking for feedback on performance experiences with any of these 3 or even more manifold suggestions. All 3 have lifetime warranty against cracking for original owner. What I am looking for is commentary or data showing why one is better than the next.
You can't go wrong with any of these. Each of us has slightly different mentalities how to approach the goal. I stronger prefer thick walled schedule stainless steel and equal length runners to take advantage of the exhaust pulses and a twin scroll housing. I do not offer a re-route off the shelf but can make it happen with the single wastegate kit. The downside of the re-route is your are introducing turbulence into the exhaust so there is a minor power loss. Plus side is obviously less noise.
IMO the differences in actual performance will be minimal. Take into consideration turbo location, fitment with stock or aftermarket lower intake manifolds, shop's communication and customer service, price, availability, etc.
My preference for turbo manifolds will always be cast Turblown's manifolds are a work of art!
Understood that is your preference, but what about them is a work of art? Personally, I don't like the idea that the runners tap down to "increase velocity", and I have my doubts about a the life of the cast. I have close to 20 years on my SS welded manifold, pulled it last year to rewrap it, looks clean, no cracks...
To me, art is something that has been tig welded with such precision, that the beads look like stacked dimes; full penetration, no "sugaring" on the inside.
Understood that is your preference, but what about them is a work of art? Personally, I don't like the idea that the runners tap down to "increase velocity", and I have my doubts about a the life of the cast. I have close to 20 years on my SS welded manifold, pulled it last year to rewrap it, looks clean, no cracks...
To me, art is something that has been tig welded with such precision, that the beads look like stacked dimes; full penetration, no "sugaring" on the inside.
no-one cares about the performance nor they are put to the real test and thats a real shame. 9 out of 10 people cant tell the difference between a good product and a shitty one. Most people label a good product purely on the looks and how much it shines
Thinking that having one larger WG will make less heat and easier to plumb into the DP.
Nice sentiment, having gone done that road years ago and having to weld in another wastegate, I'd suggest rather than risk boost control, safer not to, and take your lumps on the extra plumbing nightmare.
Originally Posted by iceman4357
All 3 have lifetime warranty against cracking for original owner.
Short of ebay specials, always found flanges warping to be the biggest issue...at least in extreme use....and that's where casting shines.
Originally Posted by KNONFS
I don't like the idea that the runners tap down to "increase velocity", and I have my doubts about a the life of the cast.
Won't speak for turblown's philosophy, but HKS went to a great deal of trouble to did this on their fabricated manifolds 20+ years ago, when they could have simply used straight schedule pipe instead, doubt it's a straight sales gimmick. I think runners as short as possible are best, which none of the options here provide - and of course, make WG routing even more challenging.
Originally Posted by R-R-Rx7
Most people label a good product purely on the looks and how much it shines
Seems both had a bit of a hard-on for appearance, between turbo, downpipe and wrapping seeing a manifold's "shininess" or "dimes", seems moot to me in the extreme, can't see anything much beyond the compressor housing in the installation here with heat shielding installed for example.
Won't speak for turblown's philosophy, but HKS went to a great deal of trouble to did this on their fabricated manifolds 20+ years ago, when they could have simply used straight schedule pipe instead, doubt it's a straight sales gimmick. I think runners as short as possible are best, which none of the options here provide - and of course, make WG routing even more challenging.
Not to take away from what you are saying, because I have zero data to back one or the other. I do know that HKS had a divided cast manifold, but that was more of their low budget kit.. Their higher end, T51 setup used a tubular setup.
In respect to length,. most drag cars prefer a long runner setup vs a short one; have no clue why some prefer short vs long, and vice versa.
Hks had at least 3 different versions that i know of. 2 of them are the tubular version. Yes they are tapered and i actually have both of them on my workbench. They are properly engineered in every aspect. Runner flow and wastegate runner flow . All the japanese manifolds that i have seen (greddy Rmagic hks and others) use steel flanges to prevent warping.
The 2 wastegate hype is to simplify the piping because 1 wastegate adds complexity to get the wastegate runner flow properly. If they are not routed in the exhaust fabrication is significantly easier.
The cast manifold will eventually warp like the other versions. I havent used the cast manifold to have first hand experience but with all the crap i have been through from the person selling them i have no desire to get near one
As for my previous comment about a part being regarded as good purely on esthetics is a general statement not only for the manifolds
Hks had at least 3 different versions that i know of. 2 of them are the tubular version. Yes they are tapered and i actually have both of them on my workbench. They are properly engineered in every aspect. Runner flow and wastegate runner flow . All the japanese manifolds that i have seen (greddy Rmagic hks and others) use steel flanges to prevent warping.
The 2 wastegate hype is to simplify the piping because 1 wastegate adds complexity to get the wastegate runner flow properly. If they are not routed in the exhaust fabrication is significantly easier.
The cast manifold will eventually warp like the other versions. I havent used the cast manifold to have first hand experience but with all the crap i have been through from the person selling them i have no desire to get near one
As for my previous comment about a part being regarded as good purely on esthetics is a general statement not only for the manifolds
What are your thoughts on Howard Coleman's design then for the short runners and single WG divided?
I think I will be trying to fabricate something along those lines although I might try to mount the turbo very low and run a scavenging pump, so wastegate on top, more natural flow priority.
I don't see short runner EWG manifolds for FD from most vendors anymore, all I see are IWG ones for EFRs.
I still have one from A-spec that I never used. It fit with OE and Xcessive lower and 1.15 a/r garrett p-trim turbine housing. Doesn't fit with Elite LIM.
I don't see short runner EWG manifolds for FD from most vendors anymore, all I see are IWG ones for EFRs.
I still have one from A-spec that I never used. It fit with OE and Xcessive lower and 1.15 a/r garrett p-trim turbine housing. Doesn't fit with Elite LIM.
Sorry to hear this was never used. I was thinking of going with the xcessive LIM or if turbo source does provide dyno proof, their new complete intake setup.
I don't see short runner EWG manifolds for FD from most vendors anymore, all I see are IWG ones for EFRs.
I still have one from A-spec that I never used. It fit with OE and Xcessive lower and 1.15 a/r garrett p-trim turbine housing. Doesn't fit with Elite LIM.
That photo is from A-spec, not my actual manifold. I had mine ceramic coated and a couple 1/8 npt bungs added.
I have a bunch of parts that I collected over nearly 15 years with intention to use them but time and circumstances didn't allow.
Example, 4 different intake elbows, 3 intercoolers, 3 WI kits, 3 LIMS, 3 turbo manifolds included this one and a welded and cast Turblown, 2 turbos, 3 stud kits, a semipp engine, Just to name a few 😂😭. My plan is to eventually get my car ready with my preferred parts and sell everything else.
-END THREADJACK- 😂
In respect to length,. most drag cars prefer a long runner setup vs a short one; have no clue why some prefer short vs long, and vice versa.
If you take the Garretts, etc, at their word, minimizing volume between the exhaust port and turbine wheel is the way to go for best response and performance. Packaging a truck turbo in the confines of narrow front track car, is probably a greater consideration for most quick drag cars and the operating range is tiny, so not great detriment other than heat energy loss I'd guess.
Originally Posted by R-R-Rx7
Hks had at least 3 different versions that i know of. 2 of them are the tubular version. Yes they are tapered and i actually have both of them on my workbench. They are properly engineered in every aspect. Runner flow and wastegate runner flow . All the japanese manifolds that i have seen (greddy Rmagic hks and others) use steel flanges to prevent warping.
The 2 wastegate hype is to simplify the piping because 1 wastegate adds complexity to get the wastegate runner flow properly. If they are not routed in the exhaust fabrication is significantly easier. The cast manifold will eventually warp like the other versions. I havent used the cast manifold to have first hand experience but with all the crap i have been through from the person selling them i have no desire to get near one
I've modded a HKS to dual WG because it couldn't control creep, despite going larger and larger with the wastegate, and flycut flanges due to distortion, there's also SS flanged versions out there. I'll totally agree, single wastegate is far easier on the plumbing, wouldn't be surprised a T04 of some variety was the intended turbo du jour back when, newer tech seems to overwhelm the flow capacity. One of the early customers for the long cast manifold here must have had his for 4 or 5 years now, short burst time attack, but understand it has been problem free so far.
I have been leaning towards the elite or gleaseman manifolds..any pro’s or cons?
I am looking to get mid 500-600 whp and a twin scroll g35 from what my research has led me to go towards. I have had my 98supra for over 20 years now and @ 800 whp since 2007… but the Dorito machine is a whole other story!!!!
I have been doing a ton of reading, some old threads and new, I thought this would be a good place to ask..please reduce the flame machines to a low burn if I have Mis posted, thank you for the advice!
Do a quick forum search before you buy anything from that place Friendly advice
thank you, I am only going to use their parts..I have tried reaching out to gleaseman but have not heard back from one of the 3 different method’s I used to try and contact them… elite is very hit and miss, some love them and some hate them.
thank you, I am only going to use their parts..I have tried reaching out to gleaseman but have not heard back from one of the 3 different method’s I used to try and contact them… elite is very hit and miss, some love them and some hate them.
Reach out to Full Function Engineering, for a while there they were partnered with John in an offshoot of theirs called Roiel Innovations, I just checked and the website is down though. I bought my merge collector and engine manifold flanges (gleaseman designs) from there a few years ago. They're beautiful pieces!
Otherwise, I *think* chip's motorsports may make a cnc'd merge collector.
Reach out to Full Function Engineering, for a while there they were partnered with John in an offshoot of theirs called Roiel Innovations, I just checked and the website is down though. I bought my merge collector and engine manifold flanges (gleaseman designs) from there a few years ago. They're beautiful pieces!
Otherwise, I *think* chip's motorsports may make a cnc'd merge collector.
thank you! I tried as well and it looks like they are no longer are open & I read gleaseman is pretty much a done deal sooo… maybe a full race manifold.
thank you! I tried as well and it looks like they are no longer are open & I read gleaseman is pretty much a done deal sooo… maybe a full race manifold.
Yeah, that's really unfortunate. The only concern I'd have with the full race one is the proximity of the WG's to the heat of the turbine housing. If you plan on punishing the car then the heat could result in reduced WG life. My builder just pushed my WG's out a bit for that purpose.
Yeah, that's really unfortunate. The only concern I'd have with the full race one is the proximity of the WG's to the heat of the turbine housing. If you plan on punishing the car then the heat could result in reduced WG life. My builder just pushed my WG's out a bit for that purpose.
thank you for the heads up, I will see about possibly having them extended out some. The elite has the front pushed down a little and out of the way, the rear however is just as close as full race’ damn you gleaseman..his positioning was perfect lol..
I was told by a shop close to me their elite exhaust manifold they recently installed wouldn’t seal-so elite is out.
I feel for you. Even living here in the DFW metroplex area I can't hardly get anyone to answer their phone, call me back, or the few I did talk with to commit to an appointment I can count on just trying to get an hour or two of dyno time. I don't see it getting better any time soon either.
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thank you for the heads up, I will see about possibly having them extended out some. The elite has the front pushed down a little and out of the way, the rear however is just as close as full race’ damn you gleaseman..his positioning was perfect lol..
I was told by a shop close to me their elite exhaust manifold they recently installed wouldn’t seal-so elite is out.
Honestly you're likely to be just fine with the full-race one. I got the engine flanges and merge collector from Glease/Roiel and the shop doing my build fabbed the rest.
I guess the better WG placement is close to the turbine housing. My shop extended the WG neck a few inches away. When I asked why so far they said that they experienced premature failures in the WG's of their landspeed record car when the WG's were too close in. Knowing I want to turn this into a streetable track car (emphasis on track car) they took the extra precaution. I claim no real expertise, but I'd honestly think the full-race one is fine unless you REALLY want to punish your engine bay.
04-13-21, 10:20 AM
Friendly advice 
