Hey guys everyone talks about how they went and got tuned and picked up 40hp/tq. I'm curious if anyone else out there does the same thing as I do. I pull the map out and compare it to the previous one I had installed, so I can see what made the hp.
The big issue I have with Dyno numbers is that I've seen some numbers that are just flat out incredible with the same A/F ratio, and similiar mods. So that leads me to believe it's a timing issue. Of course everyone is quiet about their IGL and IGT maps to a point, but they are all pretty consistant about what timing they are running at high boost.
So if we have the same A/F, and very close timing maps in high boost situations, with the same mods, I don't see how a 40hp peak difference can be there, unless something is wack with the dyno.
Of course I also see 400+ rwhp cars running in the 12's too.
I sure many others on this forum are thinking the same thing, but I figured with such a powerful forum membership, and with all the cars that have been professionally tuned we could come up with some good maps for Jason to post when it came to IGL and IGT based on your mods.
These are the categories I would think would cover most timing maps. Post your IGL and IGT Maps along with your dyno curve. I say curve because numbers can vary based on the dyno.

Stock port Single
Stock Port Twins Upgraded
Stock Port Stock Twins
Street port Single
Street Port Twins Upgraded
Street Port Stock Twins
Race port Single
Race Port Twins Upgraded
Race Port Stock Twins

 

Asking for peoples timing maps is like asking for the key to their house! But hey i would love to seee those also

 

Why would people not be willing to help eachother out? It's not like we're trying to steal something from them... this is a HELP forum, why would people not help eachother out? If someone knows a way to make the most power with a setup, who is too snood to share their info? That seems kind of messed up if you ask me. I mean, people should have individual cars and all but that sure doesn't seem like a huge deal to me.

Oh, and mmonaco... you at CU Boulder? I'd love to get together with you sometime as I have a lot of friends/family who are going there. We could have our own small car show I know some quick WRX guys that meet in Boulder on some Sundays if you're interested.

 

if I had a way to upload my maps I would but I don't

 

How in the hell do you figure that?

 

Nobody wants to give up their info. It would be like me not wanting to give you my maps because I'm afraid your car might be faster than mine, even though we're 100-1000 miles away from each other.

The biggest reason why people don't like to share maps is because they've spend alot of time perfecting their maps and don't feel that they should give away their hard work for free.

 

Some people have spent hundreds of dollars and/or many hours of fine tuning and I would understand if they didn't just want to give that info out to everyone. Besides, every car is different, as has been stated a hundred times before. One timing setup that works for somebody may blow another's engine. For one thing, streetports can vary quite a bit which will change the proper timing. For another thing, the ecu can be reading the incorrect timing on a car (seen a lot of this in the ecu forum lately).

Yes, people posting their maps would be helpful to get a general TREND of timing patterns, but not to just copy them.

EDIT: Damn, I just agreed with Resource again!

 

I don't understand the big deal - just advance the ignition until you lose power or it pings, and then back it down. You'll have your best power ignition timing then...


-Ted

 

and a blown motor j/k

Thats how I have been tunning. Advance the timing until its not making any more power and back it off.
Also using an EGT gauge helps.

Jason

 

I can understand why people might not want to share their info with others but... you said it yourself; People spend lots of time and money on their timing maps so: why not have others help people out by sharing their info and then the people without this info won't have to spend hundreds on it... doesn't that make sense? I mean, no one is forcing anyone to do anything but if this is a help board, I see no reason why anyone would hold anything from anyone that could be helpful... Maybe I'm crazy though? And it's like you said, each car is different so by posting your maps, you're just giving them general guidelines that they can work from. Your car will never be exactly the same as their's. Just my .02 though.

 

Really the only way to know what a motors timing should be is by dyno tuning. There are some safe timing maps that would work on any car, but you would be loosing alot of power.
Timing that is good for one motor doesnt mean that it will work on another, even though the modifications are the same.
I think if people started posting their maps there would be alot of blown motors. If people have mods similar to mine and have a question about their timing they can PM me.

Jason

 

I can see everyone's point. I guess timing will always be a secret. Oh well. good luck everyone.

 

I tune by EGT's. You can tell when the EGT's start getting a little too hot. It's even easier on a dyno. The power will start to fall off once you're overly advanced on the timing. You'll *SEE* the power drop due to early stages of detonation...

Every engine is different. Just because one engine makes big numbers on a certain (ignition) map, doesn't necessarily mean it'll be the same fo yours. You really shouldn't be running other maps not tuned for your engine. Engine variances and VE differences could vary timing easily + or - 3 degrees, so you should be tuning each engine differently. The "experts" all know this...


-Ted

 

How am doing it is with the J and S on the leading only and and i keep adcancing it till knock starts rising and back off a couple degrees. Trailing is a bit harder got any advice for the trailing. How many dergrees diff?

 

im using a 85 locked dizzy set at 5 deg adv. leading and trailing... it works fine

730rwhp @ 28psi. on a 12a turbo motor

i dont think timing is that important , the fuel map is what is important...

 

You guys suck!
The rotary community should share the knowledge!
That is why people are popping their engines!
We are all family! Until you realize that, you suck!
Come on! Give it up you prude!

 

Ok, you go get your car tuned for $500-$1000 and then come share the results with everyone....see if you still feel the same way.

 

lol...

 

Ah, I was going to say this was the other way to do it, In fact, I very high-profile import shop does it this way...


It depends what you believe. I tune for 0 split when WOT loads. The split goes big (45 degrees) on heavy vacuum/decel. It's really for emissions for the large split, but people have been having good results with little or no split at WOT.


-Ted

 

what about people that have no access to tuners in other countrys like europe and especially malta where rx7 and rotarys are new when i spoke to a good tuner that tunes four cylinder and V8 for drags he simply steared at me and said ill try but im not going to let him experiment on my new engine and probably blow it up or he might still get the timing wrong for the rotary leading and trealing so i think its not being fear for those fellas with no help at all. All i know is that my fd has a street port, rebuilt 3 mm one piece apex, dp,mp,cb,power fc, twin cone filters, and i recently copyied a map and it reduced the knock but its still knocking at 130 like hell im scared to even drive the car as if racing it, im even considering selling my fd because of this problem we dont have rx7 tuners in malta ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????

 

that sucks

 

do a search, there are threads out there with a lot of good info. Steve Kan has shared A LOT of info on how he tunes timing on cars. Their is a lot of info if you search, and no one is just gonna supply their maps, then they are subject to people complaining if they blow an engine when they are making the sacrifice of donating highly tuned maps. For some their tuning ability is their livelihood. Baddog and Steve Kan both do a lot of tuning. THere is also a lot of Haltech maps on the no pistons board, check those out. You might want to pm vosko, he's been willing to share maps in the past i think.

 

Power_Put, invest in a datalogit and a wideband. Start with a base map that someone has made with the same setup as Yours but add some extra fuel and retard the timing to start. Join the data logit group and You will be set. I think with the PFC and the wide band, tuning the fuel is made easy but playing with timing is a bit more tricky. Tune it rich to start and You will be fine.

 

Look for tuners who are willing to travel. Hell, I'm in CZ right now tuning a bunch of FC's.



-Ted

 

What would you consider "a little too hot"?
What part of the exhaust system do you measure EGT's from?
~John