is there any reason for this? (tuning prob)
03-14-04, 06:27 PM
#1
is there any reason for this? (tuning prob)
ok, i'm finally trying to get my single to boost higher than 10psi. i've been driving around for a few months at .80 bar. we had a dyno day yesterday at the shop that put in my pineapple motor, and put on my single kit. we decided to do a little tuning while we were there.
we made some awesome power a while ago (very aggressive we got as much as 426, 409 not so aggressive, and now 370's very consistantly, all at .8 bar on my avc-r(manifold press.), (.65 on my power fc because of my altitude).
anyway, here's my problem/question and i hope someone can help. my tuning guy is telling me we have some restriction somewhere and it wont let me boost any more than i already am. here's a list of my mods:
pineapple ported motor (road race port, not quite as big as the race port)
aspec 35/40R
power fc w/datalogit
apex avc-r boost controller
exhaust consists of a-spec dp, midpipe, and tanabe g-power cb.
1600 secondaries, 550 primaries, denso high flow pump.
hks twin power.
big K&N filter
so he's thinking we have exhaust restriction, it would have to be the tanabe since the rest is 3" piping. would this really restrict how much boost i can run? we took the filter off just to make sure it wasnt' the intake limiting us and it was the same. he showed me the duty cycle on the avc-r and it was 90%, as high as it will go.
so is this right? i'm new to tuning, still trying to learn, so dont flame me too bad. but is my tuning guy right? it just doesn't make sense to me, that my cb, which i heard is pretty high flow, would limit the amount of boost i can run? is my tuner missing something?
any help would be appreciated guys. i can post my logs if it will help.
thanks!!
shaun
we made some awesome power a while ago (very aggressive we got as much as 426, 409 not so aggressive, and now 370's very consistantly, all at .8 bar on my avc-r(manifold press.), (.65 on my power fc because of my altitude).
anyway, here's my problem/question and i hope someone can help. my tuning guy is telling me we have some restriction somewhere and it wont let me boost any more than i already am. here's a list of my mods:
pineapple ported motor (road race port, not quite as big as the race port)
aspec 35/40R
power fc w/datalogit
apex avc-r boost controller
exhaust consists of a-spec dp, midpipe, and tanabe g-power cb.
1600 secondaries, 550 primaries, denso high flow pump.
hks twin power.
big K&N filter
so he's thinking we have exhaust restriction, it would have to be the tanabe since the rest is 3" piping. would this really restrict how much boost i can run? we took the filter off just to make sure it wasnt' the intake limiting us and it was the same. he showed me the duty cycle on the avc-r and it was 90%, as high as it will go.
so is this right? i'm new to tuning, still trying to learn, so dont flame me too bad. but is my tuning guy right? it just doesn't make sense to me, that my cb, which i heard is pretty high flow, would limit the amount of boost i can run? is my tuner missing something?
any help would be appreciated guys. i can post my logs if it will help.
thanks!!
shaun
03-14-04, 08:28 PM
#2
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Re: is there any reason for this? (tuning prob)
Shaun,
hitting 426rwhp at only .8bar on the GT35/40 is awesome! The new GT turbos are amazing!
as for your boost issue.. double check your hoses to the AVCR solenoid make sure there hose correctly.. also check if theres not any "boost limiter" function set on the AVCR causing you low boost. (not sure if the AVCR has this function though)
also try putting a cheap manual boost controller on to see its not the AVCR causiing the problem...
good luck!
Steve
hitting 426rwhp at only .8bar on the GT35/40 is awesome! The new GT turbos are amazing!
as for your boost issue.. double check your hoses to the AVCR solenoid make sure there hose correctly.. also check if theres not any "boost limiter" function set on the AVCR causing you low boost. (not sure if the AVCR has this function though)
also try putting a cheap manual boost controller on to see its not the AVCR causiing the problem...
good luck!
Steve
Originally posted by paximus
ok, i'm finally trying to get my single to boost higher than 10psi. i've been driving around for a few months at .80 bar. we had a dyno day yesterday at the shop that put in my pineapple motor, and put on my single kit. we decided to do a little tuning while we were there.
we made some awesome power a while ago (very aggressive we got as much as 426, 409 not so aggressive, and now 370's very consistantly, all at .8 bar on my avc-r(manifold press.), (.65 on my power fc because of my altitude).
anyway, here's my problem/question and i hope someone can help. my tuning guy is telling me we have some restriction somewhere and it wont let me boost any more than i already am. here's a list of my mods:
pineapple ported motor (road race port, not quite as big as the race port)
aspec 35/40R
power fc w/datalogit
apex avc-r boost controller
exhaust consists of a-spec dp, midpipe, and tanabe g-power cb.
1600 secondaries, 550 primaries, denso high flow pump.
hks twin power.
big K&N filter
so he's thinking we have exhaust restriction, it would have to be the tanabe since the rest is 3" piping. would this really restrict how much boost i can run? we took the filter off just to make sure it wasnt' the intake limiting us and it was the same. he showed me the duty cycle on the avc-r and it was 90%, as high as it will go.
so is this right? i'm new to tuning, still trying to learn, so dont flame me too bad. but is my tuning guy right? it just doesn't make sense to me, that my cb, which i heard is pretty high flow, would limit the amount of boost i can run? is my tuner missing something?
any help would be appreciated guys. i can post my logs if it will help.
thanks!!
shaun
ok, i'm finally trying to get my single to boost higher than 10psi. i've been driving around for a few months at .80 bar. we had a dyno day yesterday at the shop that put in my pineapple motor, and put on my single kit. we decided to do a little tuning while we were there.
we made some awesome power a while ago (very aggressive we got as much as 426, 409 not so aggressive, and now 370's very consistantly, all at .8 bar on my avc-r(manifold press.), (.65 on my power fc because of my altitude).
anyway, here's my problem/question and i hope someone can help. my tuning guy is telling me we have some restriction somewhere and it wont let me boost any more than i already am. here's a list of my mods:
pineapple ported motor (road race port, not quite as big as the race port)
aspec 35/40R
power fc w/datalogit
apex avc-r boost controller
exhaust consists of a-spec dp, midpipe, and tanabe g-power cb.
1600 secondaries, 550 primaries, denso high flow pump.
hks twin power.
big K&N filter
so he's thinking we have exhaust restriction, it would have to be the tanabe since the rest is 3" piping. would this really restrict how much boost i can run? we took the filter off just to make sure it wasnt' the intake limiting us and it was the same. he showed me the duty cycle on the avc-r and it was 90%, as high as it will go.
so is this right? i'm new to tuning, still trying to learn, so dont flame me too bad. but is my tuning guy right? it just doesn't make sense to me, that my cb, which i heard is pretty high flow, would limit the amount of boost i can run? is my tuner missing something?
any help would be appreciated guys. i can post my logs if it will help.
thanks!!
shaun
03-14-04, 08:52 PM
#3
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If the boost is set to .8 bar on your Power FC ECU and you are trying to up the boost with your AVC-R boost controller, the Power FC ECU will still be restricting your boost to .8 bar. Chance the boost settings on your Power FC to the maximum boost you plan to run, then adjust your AVC-R. If that is the problem, it really makes me question your tuners knowledge if he would think your exhaust or intake is keeping you from making more boost than 10psi when you are probably hitting 10psi at 3500rpms or less.
03-14-04, 09:21 PM
#4
thanks steve, its actually the 35/40 "R" so its not as small as the normal 35/40, anyone can call sean at aspec for more info. i do get 10psi before 4k though. i looked through my avc-r a little bit ago and didn't see a boost limiter, i'll look into it further though.
hrmm....i just checked my datalogit and it was set for 1.15bar and 90% duty.
any other ideas?
hrmm....i just checked my datalogit and it was set for 1.15bar and 90% duty.
any other ideas?
03-14-04, 09:26 PM
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ahh yes... you got Sean's new GT35/40R which is a modified GT35/40. your car must be a beast.. imagine when you take that turbo to higher boost!
good luck
Steve
good luck
Steve
Originally posted by paximus
thanks steve, its actually the 35/40 "R" so its not as small as the normal 35/40, anyone can call sean at aspec for more info. i do get 10psi before 4k though. i looked through my avc-r a little bit ago and didn't see a boost limiter, i'll look into it further though.
hrmm....i just checked my datalogit and it was set for 1.15bar and 90% duty.
any other ideas?
thanks steve, its actually the 35/40 "R" so its not as small as the normal 35/40, anyone can call sean at aspec for more info. i do get 10psi before 4k though. i looked through my avc-r a little bit ago and didn't see a boost limiter, i'll look into it further though.
hrmm....i just checked my datalogit and it was set for 1.15bar and 90% duty.
any other ideas?
03-14-04, 09:40 PM
#6
yup, thats the one. new mani and dp are on the way too, should have them by thursday. "higher boost?" i know, the efficiency i'm guessing is above 17psi, and i'm running a measly 10. once she gets going even with 10 its a kick in the ***, i cant imagine what its gonna be like with 20psi and a good tune. anyone want to take a trip to utah to tune this for me?
i'm going for a drive right now, so i'll check out the avc-r some more.
i'm going for a drive right now, so i'll check out the avc-r some more.
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03-15-04, 12:59 AM
#8
ok, just went for a quick drive, my pfc is set for 1.15bar. and i up'ed my avc-r to 1.0 bar and had no problems, i hit 1.05 on the avc-r. i'm not sure how much he was trying to run, but i need to hook up my laptop and keep and eye on everything.
oh, i have a permanent wideband installed also (forgot to list it). so i can log and keep my a/f in check. i checked everything out, all lines an hoses are fine and no boost limiter on my avc-r. i'll have my buddy drive tomorrow and play with it some more.
so are you guys thinking that its not my exhaust causing me not to up my boost, but an error on the part of my tuner?
oh, i have a permanent wideband installed also (forgot to list it). so i can log and keep my a/f in check. i checked everything out, all lines an hoses are fine and no boost limiter on my avc-r. i'll have my buddy drive tomorrow and play with it some more.
so are you guys thinking that its not my exhaust causing me not to up my boost, but an error on the part of my tuner?
03-15-04, 10:05 AM
#9
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well, if you boost is now going up then it sounds like the guy just didnt know how to use the AVCR unless you've changed something between now and then.
Maybe it just wouldnt build boost on the dyno cause there wasnt enough load.
Also, I wouldnt run the boost any higher than what it was tuned for unless your watching a wideband. He didnt tune those higher cells if he couldnt get the boost that high so I wouldnt run in them without knowing the a/f ratio
STEPHEN
Maybe it just wouldnt build boost on the dyno cause there wasnt enough load.
Also, I wouldnt run the boost any higher than what it was tuned for unless your watching a wideband. He didnt tune those higher cells if he couldnt get the boost that high so I wouldnt run in them without knowing the a/f ratio
STEPHEN
03-15-04, 07:02 PM
#10
hey stephen, i have a wideband in my car so i keep a good eye on it.
i have another question though, i know normally the max boost you can run is 1.0 bar on pump gas. i'm at 4,300ft elevation, so my manifold pressure (which is what my avc-r reads) is different than my absolute, (which is what my power fc reads). so my question is, can i run 1bar absolute with pump, or is it manifold? i know these altitude questions dont apply to most, but i was just wondering if anyone knew. i run a 91/100 mix most of the time, so i should be safe. its all just baby steps, i can log the a/f's and keep an eye on my knock also and adjust the cells.
i have another question though, i know normally the max boost you can run is 1.0 bar on pump gas. i'm at 4,300ft elevation, so my manifold pressure (which is what my avc-r reads) is different than my absolute, (which is what my power fc reads). so my question is, can i run 1bar absolute with pump, or is it manifold? i know these altitude questions dont apply to most, but i was just wondering if anyone knew. i run a 91/100 mix most of the time, so i should be safe. its all just baby steps, i can log the a/f's and keep an eye on my knock also and adjust the cells.
03-17-04, 08:10 AM
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I think your tuner is fine. Stick with him rather than someone who doesn't know the car and the behavior at altitude.
The AVC-R may have had issues depending on how you set it up. It can have a nasty "learn" feature that will kick in when you make a setting change and you have to max out the car by doing a couple of hard pulls before your changes take affect. Check the manual and you'll find the details of what I may have summarized wrong.
Good to hear you're running a WB.
Personal experience on the AVC-R is like pulling your hair out sometimes. The Greddy and the Blitz units are awesome.
The AVC-R may have had issues depending on how you set it up. It can have a nasty "learn" feature that will kick in when you make a setting change and you have to max out the car by doing a couple of hard pulls before your changes take affect. Check the manual and you'll find the details of what I may have summarized wrong.
Good to hear you're running a WB.
Personal experience on the AVC-R is like pulling your hair out sometimes. The Greddy and the Blitz units are awesome.
03-17-04, 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by paximus
hey stephen, i have a wideband in my car so i keep a good eye on it.
i have another question though, i know normally the max boost you can run is 1.0 bar on pump gas. i'm at 4,300ft elevation, so my manifold pressure (which is what my avc-r reads) is different than my absolute, (which is what my power fc reads). so my question is, can i run 1bar absolute with pump, or is it manifold? i know these altitude questions dont apply to most, but i was just wondering if anyone knew. i run a 91/100 mix most of the time, so i should be safe. its all just baby steps, i can log the a/f's and keep an eye on my knock also and adjust the cells.
hey stephen, i have a wideband in my car so i keep a good eye on it.
i have another question though, i know normally the max boost you can run is 1.0 bar on pump gas. i'm at 4,300ft elevation, so my manifold pressure (which is what my avc-r reads) is different than my absolute, (which is what my power fc reads). so my question is, can i run 1bar absolute with pump, or is it manifold? i know these altitude questions dont apply to most, but i was just wondering if anyone knew. i run a 91/100 mix most of the time, so i should be safe. its all just baby steps, i can log the a/f's and keep an eye on my knock also and adjust the cells.
I'm not sure how elevation affects it but based on theory I'd say that since you have less O2 density in the air you could run more cfm on pump gas than someone at say sea level. At sea level I was running 17-18psi but thats on a different setup. If you have an experience tuner that tunes high hp rotary in that area and elevation go by thier advice. But I dont see why you would need to stay at or under 1bar. Here I'd run a max of 1.15bar on pump gas and I have more oxygen in my air than you do
STEPHEN
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