Stock fd ignition limit?
03-09-18, 08:44 PM
#2
Arrogant Wankeler
I got breakup on factory turbos at about a bar boost with new factory plugs. Now have denso irridiums and gtr coils. If you still have ps/ac i'd say ign01a and fine wire plugs is the way to go, COP is nice in theory but the supplier tried to get away with designing a single coil bracket/coil orientation for front and rear rotor and it made it very difficult to fit behind the ac. I will redesign my own brackets when i get some time.
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cdoublejj (09-13-23)
03-13-18, 02:43 AM
#6
We're a bit biased but.... the silver bullet for all things ignition related on rotaries are the IGN-1A. It's 100% plug and play, it works, flawlessly, and consistently. I can't tell you how many dyno sessions we've been in the middle of, and had to pull the car off because the owner didn't believe us that their HKS twin power or stock coils (or LS Coils 
... seen our fair share of those "high output coils" that just weren't designed to recharge fast enough) blow hundreds of dyno dollars because the owner didn't want to pull the trigger on a proper ignition setup. We've got a dyno day coming up in two weekends and people finally are getting wise enough to do the coils ahead of time. There are some repeat FD owners from the last big dyno day that are back for a second tune... but bought and installed our IGN-1A kit in the interim 
Basically, they just work, and work very well. We haven't found the limit for these coils on a 2 rotor yet, but I'd say it's well beyond 800hp if you dwell them long enough.
IGN-1A High Performance Ignition System (FD3S RX-7, LHD Mount) - SakeBomb Garage LLC
... seen our fair share of those "high output coils" that just weren't designed to recharge fast enough) blow hundreds of dyno dollars because the owner didn't want to pull the trigger on a proper ignition setup. We've got a dyno day coming up in two weekends and people finally are getting wise enough to do the coils ahead of time. There are some repeat FD owners from the last big dyno day that are back for a second tune... but bought and installed our IGN-1A kit in the interim Basically, they just work, and work very well. We haven't found the limit for these coils on a 2 rotor yet, but I'd say it's well beyond 800hp if you dwell them long enough.
IGN-1A High Performance Ignition System (FD3S RX-7, LHD Mount) - SakeBomb Garage LLC
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Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
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03-14-18, 03:13 PM
#8
Yes all plug and play out of the box for the PFC . 
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SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
03-24-18, 08:52 PM
#10
Sakebomb Garage, wise words. I was tracing a break up that i found guess where? At the dyno. I have hks sakebomb spark plug wires, racing spark plugs and now fc leading coils,. Fc coils are what it fix it. If i had to ditch hks i would definitely go with Sakebomb system.
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SakeBomb Garage (04-01-18)
03-31-18, 09:26 PM
#12
Arrogant Wankeler
Yes. However you probably need more pump and bigger secondaries at least along with intake better stock mount or V/front and a big exhaust to get the most from the factory turbos.
Last edited by Slides; 03-31-18 at 09:28 PM.
04-01-18, 10:47 PM
#14
Yes sir! We've got quite a few people running these on bone stock setups (factory ECU) in fact, and it's helped idle, and removed many of the hiccups with a stock setup throughout the RPM range.
Prepping for a dyno day last weekend we had a customer that fired his car up on a base map running 7.5 AFR.... we couldn't believe the car was idling, and able to ignite being that rich. The IGN-1A's are absolute beasts... they'll light off the moon
IGN-1A High Performance Ignition System (FD3S RX-7, LHD Mount) - SakeBomb Garage LLC
Prepping for a dyno day last weekend we had a customer that fired his car up on a base map running 7.5 AFR.... we couldn't believe the car was idling, and able to ignite being that rich. The IGN-1A's are absolute beasts... they'll light off the moon
IGN-1A High Performance Ignition System (FD3S RX-7, LHD Mount) - SakeBomb Garage LLC
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Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
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04-03-18, 09:31 AM
#15
It used to be that we could run a bar or more on healthy stock ignition with race plugs, but as these cars get older the original 25+ year old systems have trouble keeping up. An ignition upgrade is beneficial at any power level in my opinion. The stronger spark will give you crisper throttle response, better fuel economy, and ultimately enable you to make more power. Another benefit is the car will be easier to deflood. We used to recommend the Twinpower but since they have been discontinued and a few older units have failed, we now exclusively recommend the SakeBomb Garage IGN-1A ignition system. The coils themselves are arguably the best in the industry and the kit is complete with new wires, brackets, and harness. We use them on just about every modified build.
04-04-18, 03:11 AM
#17
Arrogant Wankeler
for anyone who is trying to stay stock looking R-magic are selling an ignition amplifier that replaces the factory igniter box. A few guys in Australia running them with good feedback. Again I went with gtr COP setup and would use those or 1As every time. Just need to redesign my coil brackets for ease of fitment next to the A/C pump.
04-05-18, 06:17 PM
#18
I don't think there is any reason to stick with a tried and failed design (stock FDs have died long before 80k due to under manifold temps). If you're OK with SBG's mounting setup the IGN1As are awesome, though real COP from a GTR sounds very clean and interesting as well.
04-05-18, 11:10 PM
#19
Arrogant Wankeler
In theory COP is ideal, however in practice when the supplier doesn't design separate coil orientation for front and rear rotor attempting to install them is... emotional. Race car/no ancillary crowding I would recommend them.
04-06-18, 02:10 PM
#20
We had a car come in for a dyno day, that was on an insanely rich base map (don't ask why, I don't know why it was so rich) running 7.x AFR. The IGN1A's were lighting it off... none of us could believe it. They're really the best coils hands down, for nearly every application. It's a hotter spark, long duration, faster recharge time than nearly anything out there. We haven't found the HP limit of these coils on a rotary... if you can blow them out, I'd love to hear the story.
Two more points... Mazdaspeed Miata we had in the shop, we put a custom set of IGN1A's in (didn't touch dwell or anything just stock for stock replacement on the dyno) we picked up 12hp. Back to back tests in 5 min of each other, hot swapped on the dyno. We also put together a number of custom LS kits (custom plug and play harness into the factory wiring, custom coil mount, and plug wires) and picked up 8hp and 12ftlbs torque with just coils... back to back tests same dyno within an hour. The LS coils are no slouch, but the IGN1A's are just amazing. Reports back from our customer was the car was punchier, and he was getting significantly better gas mileage on the highway, and using less throttle at cruising. I can't say enough good things about these coils.
Two more points... Mazdaspeed Miata we had in the shop, we put a custom set of IGN1A's in (didn't touch dwell or anything just stock for stock replacement on the dyno) we picked up 12hp. Back to back tests in 5 min of each other, hot swapped on the dyno. We also put together a number of custom LS kits (custom plug and play harness into the factory wiring, custom coil mount, and plug wires) and picked up 8hp and 12ftlbs torque with just coils... back to back tests same dyno within an hour. The LS coils are no slouch, but the IGN1A's are just amazing. Reports back from our customer was the car was punchier, and he was getting significantly better gas mileage on the highway, and using less throttle at cruising. I can't say enough good things about these coils.
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SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
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04-20-18, 12:13 PM
#22
Aramir
Stock fd ignition limit?Going for a single turbo build around 350-400whp build with a 177272 borgwarner, will the stock ignition coils and the rest of the system be able to cope adequately or should i upgrade to a twin spark or the 1A kit
Are we talking brand new OEM coils and wires when you say "stock ignition system" or some 20 year old junk?
If you perform maintenance on your car the stock ignition and Twin Power will be good for your 350-400rwhp.
If your choice is using old junk or buying new aftermarket go with the aftermarket for higher ignition system performance, but know it might not even last as long as the OEM ignition system does.
We had a car come in for a dyno day, that was on an insanely rich base map (don't ask why, I don't know why it was so rich) running 7.x AFR. The IGN1A's were lighting it off... none of us could believe it.
Much of the turbo rotary tuning for best power is actually tuning to the limits of the ignition system and not a reflection of what the rotary engine can do.
I had a Crane Hi-6 and LX92 per leading spark plug on my TII (stock trailing system) and here are some anecdotes from running that over the years.
Once cranked a fresh rebuild over to build oil pressure with fuel pump, fuel injectors disabled but left ignition enabled. After some extended cranking the engine stumble started and died on the aerated engine assembly lube fumes. Oh, learned to disable ignition too.
I once pinched a pintle cap on one of my 720cc primaries and the injector locked at full open when I started and ran the car. Car ran OK, not great idle and popping on rev. Really I was trying to figure out why there was fuel pouring out of the exhaust flanges and streaming across the garage floor out the garage door!
When I was maxing my 60-1 turbo the car made its best power with AFRs in the 9s? because if I kept it in the 10s the boost would drop a bit in high rpm, but if I gassed it into the 9s? (widebands can only read so low with accuracy) it would keep the turbo rpm up from exhaust manifold expansion and keep full boost.
Nice big scorch mark 24" below on the dyno room floor from the 60mm wastage. Just a solid ~8" to 12" blue ball of fire continuously hovering under the wastegate every pull.
Couple times got lazy remembering to change spark plugs and some pretty wild spark plug gaps. My set-up ate spark plug electrodes pretty rapidly- had to change leading plugs with oil.
04-20-18, 02:59 PM
#23
I had great luck with GM OEM truck coils. Specifically the D585s. They are sensitive to overdwell, but if you set it to 4ms and forget it, you're fine. I ran consistant high 20s psi (26-29) for a season with 500-1000cc/min of straight water injection. Boost cut was set to 32psi and have hit that multiple times with no breakup. It wouldn't really misfire unless I pegged the wideband full rich. I also ran $2 NGK BR10EG spark plugs and got pretty good life out of such a cold plug. 100% street driving the car, below freezing startups, traffic, it didn't care. If you have an ECU that can do sequential logic-level ignition, they are the best bang for the buck by far. The next step above that would be IGN-1As, which are $70+ each.
04-22-18, 01:30 PM
#25
IGN-1A High Performance Ignition System (FD3S RX-7, LHD Mount) - SakeBomb Garage LLC
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Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com