RX794

Being on the forum for awhile now I've seen alot of dyno sheets of 2rotors with racing gas, racing sparkplugs, etc. being posted on this forum. I'm curious to know what's the RWHP numbers that people are seeing from truely daily driven 2rotors out there with pump gas(by this I mean 92-94 octane), and stock spark plugs(by stock spark plugs I mean stock NGK #9 plugs either regular or platinum that our cars were originally equipped with NOT RACING #9, #10, #11 sparkplugs from Greddy or HKS type), also NO additional water or alchohol injection(I want to discuss that later on once this thread shows us some results). This should show us an idea of what some single turbo 2 rotors with gas you can purchase anywhere and plugs that won't foul out are being driven around with these days. If anyone has dynosheets that can be posted, please do so, I want to see how high the potential is on pump gas from some of the single turbo 2rotor cars on this forum, please discuss, thanks.

bcty

hey
im laying down 350rwhp easy with a breakin tune with a 60-1 type turbo
im running HKS racing 9's and 10 plugs just fine, jsut gotta warm them up in the morning.

another friend here is running 416rwhp same plug setup with a GT35R both daily driven and beat the **** outta everywhere

Both running microtech

cripsR6

okay, I'll bite:


edit* Bur9eq's and 94 octane. No water or alcohol injection.

books

iTrader: (8)

cripsR6...what's with those torque numbers?

RX794

I really wanted to see the responses with stock plugs, here in the NY metropolitan area we sometimes get stuck in bumper to bumper traffic for hours at a time(just like any other main city in the US), your #10 plugs would probably foul out pretty bad under those circumstances(it's happened to me years ago while returning from the track and being stuck in all hells bumper to bumper traffic, trying to get home took 3 times longer than normal that day), I need to know cars that survive that extreme time idling w/o having the plugs fouled out, that's why I specifially mentioned stock #9 platinum or non platinum plugs, thanks anyway for your info, it's appreciated.

RX794

Looks like they used speed to measure instead of rpm. This happens alot of the time because the ignition signal pickup connected to the dyno gets interference and won't pickup engine rpm properly on the dyno, forcing you to use speed instead, this is why the TQ #'s are off, you need rpm to register TQ with a Dynojet dyno, so ignore the TQ #'s on that graph.

books

iTrader: (8)

His plot is actually from his home pc, not the dyno..It would be intresting to see if he can use rpm vs. speed....and yes I agree it is difficult to pick up rpm(s) sometimes but I am not certain if that is why the torque values are low..I actually have a graph of horsepower vs. speed and my torque numbers seem correct although the torque numbers were truncated

in other words I do not know if the DynoJet software calculates torque from a horsepower formula...I think the horespower is calculated by using the amount of times the drum is turned vs. time

If the DynoJet operator prints out your run in a table a run using speed will have a number indicating gear ratio which will be 1rpm/mph whereas if you print the run usinfg rpms the gear ratio will look something like this 55.xx rpm/mph

Wargasm

I don't drive my car every day because I have an S2000 daily driver, but if I wanted to do so, I easily could... it's perfectly behaved. I run 9 and 10 plugs, but I used to run all 9s, so I think my car does qualify. (The 10s are just a little better in the trailing than the 9s are)

I'm at 405 rwhp at 14 PSI on 93 pump gas.
I made 393 rwhp at 14 PSI with my map not even nearly as well tuned on the 4x9s plugs.

http://www.zeroglabs.com/rx7/dynoresults.htm

cripsR6

To sum it up, the dyno was on the wrong setting. Here is the link to my original thread: https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/gothams-gr67-kit-dyno-s-448501/
Maybe that will clear things up a bit.

books

iTrader: (8)

thanks

You're first sentence is nice and concise. I had actually followed that thread before, but didn't notice this was the same graph. Starting to reread that thread became very tiresome, again.

Beast From The East

Not wanting to be an ***, here - I understand what you are trying to get at, but with the systems that are now out it is possible to run race plugs and not foul on pump gas. My TO4S is a daily driver using a 13BRE motor, 16 lbs boost with 10.5 NGK plugs and 91 octane California gas (oxygenated POS gas), and I'm in the 400 rwhp range as well based on qtr mile and trap speed times on street tires... not gone to the dyno yet.

My plugs are PERFECT after 6,000 miles, in heavy traffic as you have described, using OMP and a bit of lube in the gas. The temps here run 8 C to 22 C in the winter, which is pretty chilly for 10.5's, but they work. I am also using the Twin Power, and am thinking of moving to 11's this spring.

My belief is that your OMP settings and AFR's have more to do with fouling than plug temp ratings, but I may be flamed for that opinion.....

Beast

RX794

I hear you, but the only thing is that here in NY/NJ/CT metro area the weather gets COOOOOOOOLD, so that's why I'm mentioning the sparkplug thing, I mean below 0 happens alot.

Beast From The East

Well, since I'm not crazy enough to live in an environment that gets as cool as you describe, nor would I drive my precious Beast from the East in any kind of weather that would bring ice into play, I have no direct experience to help you, but I do have some gut feel, and a warning or two.....

My gut feel - you'll be fine with stock 9's and a single turbo up to 16 lbs on the gas you describe in the cool conditions you describe, maybe even 17 lbs since you have 92 to 94 octane vs. 91 here in CA. I base this on the fact that all of us who drive in warmer climate are running cool plugs/water or alcohol, etc. because we're trying to remove the heat we have in our air (directly or indirectly). YOU are already there....Mother Nature is doing it for you. I ran stock twins, 9's, and 14 lbs to ~ 360 rwhp no problem, it was when I began to chase 400 rwhp that I got in trouble due to the heat of the twins, hence going single. This has all been well hashed on the single turbo forum, as you probably know.....you may want to get an upgraded ignition, but I don't think it is mandatory.

Here's your risk - slow to respond stock air thermosensors and air temp fuel correction factors......what I mean is, if you are stuck in traffic your intercooler and air thermosensor are going to get heat soaked by your motor....you're system will say your intake temps are 15 or 20 deg. C but in reality the ambient air is ~ 0 C or lower. Traffic clears up and you decide to practice your launch sequence, and you're suddenly at 16 lbs of boost on non-race gas with stock heat range plugs and your system has your air temp correction at 20 + C but the air is really 0 C, and there is much more air density and you run lean and ...... well, you get the picture. When it's cold like that I'd wait until you've gotten up to speed and your system temp sensors 'catch up' to what true ambient is.

I wouldn't run more than 14 lbs in your conditions just because I'd be very worried about traction loss on icy pavement....actually, I wouldn't drive my 7 at all, but I'm a weenie, I guess.

I'm afraid you'll just have to try it and see.....I hope you have a wideband installed so you can log and make adjustments (and also a well-tuned ecu....I use the Wolf and am very pleased....).

Beast.

1wide7

iTrader: (1)

according to your sig you have a t88 why dont you post your #'s on pump gas
also i made 417whp on 93 octane and i was using ngk 9's & 10's at 15 psi street driven in traffic without any problems so far

willjs7

iTrader: (1)

1wide7 what turbo setup was that on? t88?

darkphantom

iTrader: (2)

379 @ 14PSI, STOCK PLUGS t78 91 octane!

drive to work everyday

RX794

I've ran my car under alot of the conditions described above(It gets very hot as well here in the summer, a total contrast to the winter), it's my only car and my daily driver, the only time I don't drive it is when there's snow or ice on the ground. I do have an FJO wideband w/guage installed in my car, it's connected to my datalogit, and my car is tuned. I've tried different sparkplug combos in my previous FD, and present FD. My present FD has seen up to 21psi on the stock 9 plugs, and 93-94 octane with no ill issues, I just wanted to start a thread to see what HP #'s people have been seeing with the similar requested setups, that's why I started this post, I'm not here to bash anyone else's accomplishments(If so I would've never started this thread), just curious to see what's out there on 2 rotors with pump gas and stock 9 plugs.

Jack

iTrader: (2)

Come up to Boston if you want to know what REAL winters are, 84" of snow last year... I run 9's year round, stock motor T04E (57 trim, .84a/r) 341rwhp, 301tq @ 13 psi with high flow cat.

1wide7

iTrader: (1)

willjs7
it is an r-85 we could have gotten more out of it but i am more interseted in going to c-16 and high boost. the 417 @ 15 psi is however my current setting for street driving on 93 octane

RX794

Wow! THAT sounds like a rough winter! I mean it gets COLD out here, BUT not the snow levels that you're speaking of, just mostly cold.

Beast From The East

OK, looks like you're starting to get some responses. Short and long of it for me was 360 at 16 lbs on 91 octane with stock 9's, and that was with twins. I've still not gone to the dyno for my single setup because I'm just too damn busy, but I now run 10.5's and have no fouling or hard start problems. However, here in the Northern California valley the coldest I've seen this year outside is ~ 8 C. With your setup, maybe run 9's in the winter and have a set of 10s or 10.5's for the warm weather, and I think you'll be very happy, especially when you decide to turn up the wick to 21 lbs with race gas :-) go beat up on some hapless high dollar exotics!

Beast

RX794

I'll post a preliminary 450RWHP dyno pass that I made last week on Mobil 93 octane pump gas, and stock Mazda 9 platinum plugs all around. My goal is to see how far I can take the car under the gasoline and sparkplug conditions described. For this dyno pass I richened up the fuel on the secondary injector lag time on the PFC by .06 more than how it is set when normally tuned. My reasons for doing so were because I wanted to be safe, it ended up being a little too safe and causing the car to have too much fuel on top, and loosing power(henceforth the sloppy graph on the top of the powerband). It seems that I probably lost about 20-25 peakHP or so because of this on this pass. My timing was pretty conservative and could be bumped up a degree or two, and the boost could be raised as well. The sparkplugs that were on this run have been in my car for about a year or so, put a lot of mileage on the car and I'm still using them, I'm pretty impressed by them for now(Go Mazda and NGK!), even though I will probably be changing them the next time I go tuning just to keep things fresh. This was on a Dynojet, and the horsepower rating shown is true, it's in SAE correction(I don't use anything else because I've seen some dyno graphs posted on this forum before that were not in SAE correction, and therefore misleading, SAE is the way that the Society of Automotive Engineers measure HP, and what the industry consider to be the standard. I could've posted a standard correction factor and shown bigger HP #'s, but that's not realistic and I'd by lying to myself as well as everyone else). Also I don't use any smoothing on the graphs, I do this because the graph will show every little abnormality and that helps when fine tuning(That's why just by looking at this graph you can tell the car was too rich up top). I was also having problems with the ignition signal pickup to the dyno on this pass and therefore couldn't get an rpm signal, therefore not being able to get a torque reading, sorry about that. I will return to the dyno after me and JD can meet up sometime soon and do some more tweaking with the tune, please continue to post on this thread, it's going good so far, thanks again.

Slammedblk7

iTrader: (7)

390rwhp @ 13ish psi (can make more). 93pump MP T-70

Beast From The East

Those are terrific numbers .... I may have missed it but I looked twice before asking .... what boost level was this at?

You lucky bastards with your 93 octane gas....I have to pay ~ $7 a gallon for 103 VP unleaded......

Beast

Boostn7

I run regular 9EQs (not platinum) @ 17-18psi (easily 450rwh++) on a daily basis on 93-94 octane. Car has a smooth idle and able to see rich condition as low as 10.5's before breaking up.
Also tried Iridiums (9's) and top end feels smoother but idle is not as smooth.
Ran them as low as ~10.2A/F before break up.

NGK 10 race plugs work well on top end and idle ok.
NGK 10.5 or 11 work better for high boost and race gas and idle suffers quite a bit mainly if you drive the car daily.
On a ~430rwh dyno pull I actually picked up 5-8 rwh from a change of plugs from reg 9 EQs to NGK 10 race plugs.

Platinum plugs last longer but don't feel they're any better then the reg ones.

My .02 :-)