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Old 08-09-18, 05:33 AM
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Single or Bridgeport

Hey guys in need of some advise please. Im new to the rotary world and am not sure which way to go about on my 2002 Mazda RX7 Series 8. 2 options go single turbo or bridgeport and keep the twins (till i can afford a single &#128514. My goal for the car is around 500hp to 650hp at the wheels by the end of my build. Mainly be used for on and off track days and street use.
So my main confusion with going single is that i want to go for a single turbo that will allow me to hit boost early around the 3k mark. Ive got my eyes on one turbo and that is the Borgwarner EFR 9180 1.05 A/R. Hence I have got a bone stock motor only mods are front mount intercooler and a catback exhaust ( will be going full exhaust if i purchase the single turbo) will it effect my motor in any way is the question? Would i need to port or what not? Is it overkill for my goal hp? Yes i will be running e85 and will be getting the fuel system changed with the any path i take single or bridgy. Also with the ecu im thinking of going haltech (or can take any other suggestions? :/ ). Also will be updating my suspension and wheel sizes and what not in the mean time. This link shows the kit that caught my eye any reviews or other suggestions?

https://turbosource.com/products/turblown-engineering-investment-cast-347ss-t4-twinscroll-fd3s-ewg-turbo-kit

or just get the motor bridgeported dowled studded etc and go e85 with full exhaust system and get the single turbo later on down the track. The only problem i have with this is that i dont want to be wasting money on a downpipe and a ecu due to haltech ecu not reacting to well to the twins.

Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

p.s. im located in Australia if that helps haha.

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Old 08-09-18, 08:58 PM
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You do not need a ported engine to make power, it just makes it easier to hit higher peak numbers if done correctly. 500rwhp does not require any engine internal modifications either, especially if using E85. I do not know if the Haltech does sequential twin turbo control or not, better post in the Haltech section. The Adaptronic PNP models are the easier for sequential twin turbo control( they obviously support single turbos too, and in the event you are going with one of our EFR kits, we have pre made base maps, offer remote tuning etc).
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Old 08-10-18, 01:10 AM
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Hmm makes sense. Sure am looking at your kits. Sound really good for the kind of set up im after. If you dont mind me asking would i be able to match it up with any other manifold if i want to change later on down the track?

Also what ecu do you guys prefer? Haltech has an ecu specifically for the twins i know that. Im really after a good ecu something i wont have to send twice on and something that may provide antilag and to see what temps and what not im running, like the Apexi power fc does.
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Old 08-10-18, 03:54 AM
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Bridgeport is a waste of time with factory or small single turbos.

anti-lag without ceramic apex seals and rally spec turbines (garrett offer these not sure about others) will shorten the lift of the engine and turbo significantly on a rotary. With reasonable porting and and efr turbo in conjuction with ethanol fuel and a big exhaust you should have very good boost response anyway.
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Old 08-10-18, 09:07 PM
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Aha, makes sense. Well then i guess ill be doing one more comp test to see the health if the engine and then ill choose the route i would need to take. Hopefully the engines perfect ! Its on about 125 thousand kms so it may need a rebuild 😔
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Old 08-15-18, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Turblown View Post
You do not need a ported engine to make power, it just makes it easier to hit higher peak numbers if done correctly. 500rwhp does not require any engine internal modifications either, especially if using E85. I do not know if the Haltech does sequential twin turbo control or not, better post in the Haltech section. The Adaptronic PNP models are the easier for sequential twin turbo control( they obviously support single turbos too, and in the event you are going with one of our EFR kits, we have pre made base maps, offer remote tuning etc).
I say this all the time, but now with the merger specifically, you should know this. The answer is YES!

There's nothing easier about an undeveloped software with zero support manual, so stop throwing sales bullshit into people's faces when it's NOT asked for.




Haltech can really take advantage of the PORTING of an engine with a simple solenoid via its "Dual Runner Control" in which you install butterflies on the UIM that are closed under a certain RPM, and open above another RPM given the load of the engine is higher than some point. This gives you the best response/torque and efficiency and how Honda has been doing it since the early 90s. Works wonders for small displacement engines.

When it comes to the rest of the build, I'd say it depends on how you're driving the car. Are you doing a lot of straight line stuff, track usage (as you've said), or do you have a set of local twisty roads that you're burning through?

Rate These in the order they matter to you:

Response/Acceleration
Reliability
Refinement
Top Speed
Fuel Economy

Personally, I'd run the following setup in your shoes:

Start with a PROPER Fuel System sized for your needs.
Go with a turbo that fits your needs based on the above information.
Leave the engine stock with Elite Rotary Studs.

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Old 08-15-18, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Turblown View Post
You do not need a ported engine to make power, it just makes it easier to hit higher peak numbers if done correctly. 500rwhp does not require any engine internal modifications either, especially if using E85. I do not know if the Haltech does sequential twin turbo control or not, better post in the Haltech section. The Adaptronic PNP models are the easier for sequential twin turbo control( they obviously support single turbos too, and in the event you are going with one of our EFR kits, we have pre made base maps, offer remote tuning etc).
Haltech absolutely has has twin turbo control, but you wouldn't know that since we know you're a 1 trick pony Shawn. Not only does it have the feature, but it works and works well.

To the OP,

The combination of a bridge port and the OEM twins is a recipe for disaster. The bridge port will flow a significant amount more air than the stock port will and in turn will have a significantly higher volume of exhaust gas flow. Combine that with the use of E85 where you flow ~35% more fuel by volume as well, and the amount of exhaust mass coming out of that block will greatly exceed the flow potential of that manifold and those little turbos. This will result in a massive amount of backpressure and heat. With the large amount of intake/exhaust overlap a bridge has, you are prone to re-ingesting HOT exhaust gas into the intake anytime the exhaust pressure is greater than the intake pressure, which would be really really early on with a big flow big port motor driving all that hot flow into a choke. Not to mention the twins are specifically sized for the opposite of what the bridge port is intended to to. The result would be complete counter productive and with time cook you motor.

There's a number of ways to get to where you want to be, but I think your best path forward is to go single on the stock port block for now and build a solid capable setup including quality fuel system, turbo, manifold and ECU (haltech/fueltech, something that is complete and actually has proven success and support) and then run it in the low 400's for a while and have fun. You'd be surprised how fast and fun a 400hp single turbo street FD can be with a quick spool.

Once you've had some time with it, you can decide if you REALLY want to deal with the big port motor life. I went directly from a stock port to a fully build semi peripheral port and I can and will tell you, that it changes the car significantly and you want to be sure the power is really that important to you before you do it.

You can do a solid well built single turbo setup that will out perform all these "kits" for significantly less if you know what you want and what to look for. If you need help picking out a setup, feel free to PM me. I'm not trying to sell you anything so you won't get any bullshit.

Skeese
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Old 08-17-18, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
I say this all the time, but now with the merger specifically, you should know this. The answer is YES!

There's nothing easier about an undeveloped software with zero support manual, so stop throwing sales bullshit into people's faces when it's NOT asked for.




Haltech can really take advantage of the PORTING of an engine with a simple solenoid via its "Dual Runner Control" in which you install butterflies on the UIM that are closed under a certain RPM, and open above another RPM given the load of the engine is higher than some point. This gives you the best response/torque and efficiency and how Honda has been doing it since the early 90s. Works wonders for small displacement engines.

When it comes to the rest of the build, I'd say it depends on how you're driving the car. Are you doing a lot of straight line stuff, track usage (as you've said), or do you have a set of local twisty roads that you're burning through?

Rate These in the order they matter to you:

Response/Acceleration
Reliability
Refinement
Top Speed
Fuel Economy

Personally, I'd run the following setup in your shoes:

Start with a PROPER Fuel System sized for your needs.
Go with a turbo that fits your needs based on the above information.
Leave the engine stock with Elite Rotary Studs.
Well thats the information that I was lurking for haha. Thanks man ! Well if i was to be putting it in percentage format 70% of the time itd be used for the straights and the rest 30% will be on the twistys so i really wouldnt mind something that will be responsive and reliable i guess... Fuel economy i dont mind much... i bought a rx7 loll. Seems like the Haltech may be the "go to". Any specific model that you recomend and add ons?
Thanks in advance 👌
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Old 08-17-18, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Skeese View Post
Haltech absolutely has has twin turbo control, but you wouldn't know that since we know you're a 1 trick pony Shawn. Not only does it have the feature, but it works and works well.

To the OP,

The combination of a bridge port and the OEM twins is a recipe for disaster. The bridge port will flow a significant amount more air than the stock port will and in turn will have a significantly higher volume of exhaust gas flow. Combine that with the use of E85 where you flow ~35% more fuel by volume as well, and the amount of exhaust mass coming out of that block will greatly exceed the flow potential of that manifold and those little turbos. This will result in a massive amount of backpressure and heat. With the large amount of intake/exhaust overlap a bridge has, you are prone to re-ingesting HOT exhaust gas into the intake anytime the exhaust pressure is greater than the intake pressure, which would be really really early on with a big flow big port motor driving all that hot flow into a choke. Not to mention the twins are specifically sized for the opposite of what the bridge port is intended to to. The result would be complete counter productive and with time cook you motor.

There's a number of ways to get to where you want to be, but I think your best path forward is to go single on the stock port block for now and build a solid capable setup including quality fuel system, turbo, manifold and ECU (haltech/fueltech, something that is complete and actually has proven success and support) and then run it in the low 400's for a while and have fun. You'd be surprised how fast and fun a 400hp single turbo street FD can be with a quick spool.

Once you've had some time with it, you can decide if you REALLY want to deal with the big port motor life. I went directly from a stock port to a fully build semi peripheral port and I can and will tell you, that it changes the car significantly and you want to be sure the power is really that important to you before you do it.

You can do a solid well built single turbo setup that will out perform all these "kits" for significantly less if you know what you want and what to look for. If you need help picking out a setup, feel free to PM me. I'm not trying to sell you anything so you won't get any bullshit.

Skeese
Aha well that sounds like a plan. Eventually i will be getting the bridgeport whatever it takes really. On the other hand, i have PM'd you. Would be really happy if you may direct me.
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Old 08-17-18, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BOZRX7 View Post
Aha well that sounds like a plan. Eventually i will be getting the bridgeport whatever it takes really. On the other hand, i have PM'd you. Would be really happy if you may direct me.
Extended reply sent via PM with my thoughts and reasoning on turbo sizing for what you're looking for and how to do it with room to grow when you eventually rebuild and move to a larger port without having to overhaul the whole system to accomodate it.

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Old 08-17-18, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BOZRX7 View Post
Well thats the information that I was lurking for haha. Thanks man ! Well if i was to be putting it in percentage format 70% of the time itd be used for the straights and the rest 30% will be on the twistys so i really wouldnt mind something that will be responsive and reliable i guess... Fuel economy i dont mind much... i bought a rx7 loll. Seems like the Haltech may be the "go to". Any specific model that you recomend and add ons?
Thanks in advance 👌
All I recommend is that you try out each one of these software packages and familiarize yourself with them fully. I'm not a salesman.
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Old 08-17-18, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
All I recommend is that you try out each one of these software packages and familiarize yourself with them fully. I'm not a salesman.
Solid point. Will do 👌🤣
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Old 08-18-18, 06:24 PM
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There's someone running a twins bridgeport locally on about a bar - non sequential - on an ethanol mix, about 350hp dyno dynamics. You're off with the fairies with a genuine 500/650 and using it on the track (as in circuit use) without spending massively on driveline, as you'll be killing stock stuff, stone dead every other time.....and wouldn't be too hopeful on extended life of the engine in that use either.

If you're a young guy, hope you have deep pockets and lots of time getting defects cleared, I can just see the cash register eyes now, the giveaway brap and stinky idle = boys in blue rubbing their hands together in glee!
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Old 08-18-18, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by billyboy View Post
There's someone running a twins bridgeport locally on about a bar - non sequential - on an ethanol mix, about 350hp dyno dynamics. You're off with the fairies with a genuine 500/650 and using it on the track (as in circuit use) without spending massively on driveline, as you'll be killing stock stuff, stone dead every other time.....and wouldn't be too hopeful on extended life of the engine in that use either.

If you're a young guy, hope you have deep pockets and lots of time getting defects cleared, I can just see the cash register eyes now, the giveaway brap and stinky idle = boys in blue rubbing their hands together in glee!
Haha like i said will be getting the driveline upgraded along the path of my setups. As for the boys in blue... well lets just pray that they stay away from the stinky idling machine 🤣
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Old 08-28-18, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by billyboy View Post
There's someone running a twins bridgeport locally on about a bar - non sequential - on an ethanol mix, about 350hp dyno dynamics. You're off with the fairies with a genuine 500/650 and using it on the track (as in circuit use) without spending massively on driveline, as you'll be killing stock stuff, stone dead every other time.....and wouldn't be too hopeful on extended life of the engine in that use either.

If you're a young guy, hope you have deep pockets and lots of time getting defects cleared, I can just see the cash register eyes now, the giveaway brap and stinky idle = boys in blue rubbing their hands together in glee!
I have done a bridgeport Sequential FD that makes 350RWHP on a DynoDynamics dyno on pump fuel at 13psi.
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Old 08-28-18, 02:10 PM
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by modern standards, low end torque is bad enough on stock twins and stock ports. Don't make it worse with really big ports, because it sounds like you want low end and mid range torque.
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Old 08-30-18, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Skeese View Post
Haltech absolutely has has twin turbo control, but you wouldn't know that since we know you're a 1 trick pony Shawn. Not only does it have the feature, but it works and works well.

To the OP,

The combination of a bridge port and the OEM twins is a recipe for disaster. The bridge port will flow a significant amount more air than the stock port will and in turn will have a significantly higher volume of exhaust gas flow. Combine that with the use of E85 where you flow ~35% more fuel by volume as well, and the amount of exhaust mass coming out of that block will greatly exceed the flow potential of that manifold and those little turbos. This will result in a massive amount of backpressure and heat. With the large amount of intake/exhaust overlap a bridge has, you are prone to re-ingesting HOT exhaust gas into the intake anytime the exhaust pressure is greater than the intake pressure, which would be really really early on with a big flow big port motor driving all that hot flow into a choke. Not to mention the twins are specifically sized for the opposite of what the bridge port is intended to to. The result would be complete counter productive and with time cook you motor.

There's a number of ways to get to where you want to be, but I think your best path forward is to go single on the stock port block for now and build a solid capable setup including quality fuel system, turbo, manifold and ECU (haltech/fueltech, something that is complete and actually has proven success and support) and then run it in the low 400's for a while and have fun. You'd be surprised how fast and fun a 400hp single turbo street FD can be with a quick spool.

Once you've had some time with it, you can decide if you REALLY want to deal with the big port motor life. I went directly from a stock port to a fully build semi peripheral port and I can and will tell you, that it changes the car significantly and you want to be sure the power is really that important to you before you do it.

You can do a solid well built single turbo setup that will out perform all these "kits" for significantly less if you know what you want and what to look for. If you need help picking out a setup, feel free to PM me. I'm not trying to sell you anything so you won't get any bullshit.

Skeese

I was not the one that posted that turblown post so you can take your ASSumptions else where..
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Old 08-30-18, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by shawnm565 View Post
I was not the one that posted that turblown post so you can take your ASSumptions else where..
Why post this now, Shawn? The fact that you know Skeese can't reply to you right now is grounds on a personal attack... More importantly, it's irrelevant to the original post and you haven't contributed.

Originally Posted by Rx7Club Code of Conduct
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6. Be respectful. This is harder to define, but will be moderated. If a moderator believes you are being purposefully disrespectful to a fellow member, you will be notified. Bashing for the sake of bashing will not be tolerated.
Contribute something without having an attached sales agenda. The OP's questions have been answered. Thread is done.
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Old 08-30-18, 02:49 PM
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Simply put I never saw this thread until today so I wanted to make sure Mr ASSumption knew who he was talking to. Could care less if he can or cannot reply.
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Old 09-03-18, 12:49 AM
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**** me, would you ladies go pillow-fight somewhere else? Jesus Christ I'm tired of the bullshit bickering between the four of you (and ****, I LIKE RBD and Skeese). Also while this is aimed at all parties involved I think it's also important for me to make clear that I'm getting mighty close to passing over Turblown as a replacement parts source for both EFR builds I'm currently involved in. A business that can't grow the **** up regarding petty internet squabbles is not one that gives me confidence in doing business with them.
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Old 09-03-18, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by dguy View Post
**** me, would you ladies go pillow-fight somewhere else? Jesus Christ I'm tired of the bullshit bickering between the four of you (and ****, I LIKE RBD and Skeese). Also while this is aimed at all parties involved I think it's also important for me to make clear that I'm getting mighty close to passing over Turblown as a replacement parts source for both EFR builds I'm currently involved in. A business that can't grow the **** up regarding petty internet squabbles is not one that gives me confidence in doing business with them.
You're right, Dave.

I'm just going to continue building where I left off and help the thread blossom into why a single turbo build is going to work out better than a bridgeported motor on factory twin turbos. The airflow given from a bridgeported motor will easily be beyond the efficiency plateau of the factory twin turbo configuration, without having any of the benefits of it's excellent response due to the port overlap. It's the worst of both worlds. Meanwhile, a stockported single turbo build can have all the response of the smaller ports, better drivability, and MODERN turbo technology with dual ball bearings and such. Skeese and I both have personal excels/tables of what turbos work well for a given setup based on a person's goals. It's not always going to be EFR.

If we're not contributing with factual, tested information, then what are we doing on here? I think everyone needs to step it up, including myself, so here I go...

I'm going to follow up on what I was talking about with the Haltech Dual Runner configuration earlier, which I think is an important OEM feature to really take the lag out of the system.

Originally Posted by RGHTBrainDesign
Haltech can really take advantage of the PORTING of an engine with a simple solenoid via its "Dual Runner Control" in which you install butterflies on the UIM that are closed under a certain RPM, and open above another RPM given the load of the engine is higher than some point. This gives you the best response/torque and efficiency and how Honda has been doing it since the early 90s. Works wonders for small displacement engines.


For this table, we have MAP on the Y-Axis and Engine RPM on the X-Axis. 0.0 = OFF and 100.0 = ON. This is the ON/OFF Solenoid attached to a Vacuum Reservoir, attached to the "Secondary Butterflies" of the FD UIM. The idea being that you want the secondary butterflies to open higher in the RPM band when you're producing more vacuum (less load), and open EARLIER when you're under higher loads due to the demand for more airflow being higher. As an example of this, Honda VTEC stages with the earliest operation at the highest load, and has a linear taper to higher RPM as less and less load on the engine is requested. VTEC might engage at 4500 RPM at 80kPa, and 5000 RPM at 40kPa. It's a linear sweep between there in which at 4750 RPM, it'll engage VTEC at 60kPa. Make sense?

We're simply applying this to our intake manifold configuration to optimize torque output. To find this point, you should be able to dyno the car with the butterflies entirely open vs. the butterflies entirely closed, and identify the crossover point when dyno runs are overlaid. You can then do this every 40kPa and continue following where it's crossed over to set that RPM/Load index properly. Estimate the values in between, and you should have a BADASS smooth transition that optimizes bottom end performance out of a small displacement engine. You're finding the point in which the engine craves more air (crossover between OPEN and CLOSED at each given MAP pressure), and therefore aren't being wasteful by just dumping the secondaries open too early (lagging the system with reduced intake air velocity).

Oh well, what the hell do I know.


This short video I did should explain the functionality of airflow and how it's beneficial to engine operation in widening the powerband (less lag).


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Old 09-04-18, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dguy View Post
**** me, would you ladies go pillow-fight somewhere else? Jesus Christ I'm tired of the bullshit bickering between the four of you (and ****, I LIKE RBD and Skeese). Also while this is aimed at all parties involved I think it's also important for me to make clear that I'm getting mighty close to passing over Turblown as a replacement parts source for both EFR builds I'm currently involved in. A business that can't grow the **** up regarding petty internet squabbles is not one that gives me confidence in doing business with them.
Sorry you feel that way but I have every right to let everyone know I didn't make a post that I was accused of making. I do not make comments about products I have no knowledge of.
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Old 09-04-18, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dguy View Post
**** me, would you ladies go pillow-fight somewhere else? Jesus Christ I'm tired of the bullshit bickering between the four of you (and ****, I LIKE RBD and Skeese). Also while this is aimed at all parties involved I think it's also important for me to make clear that I'm getting mighty close to passing over Turblown as a replacement parts source for both EFR builds I'm currently involved in. A business that can't grow the **** up regarding petty internet squabbles is not one that gives me confidence in doing business with them.
I agree, I hate this ****. After my initial post on this thread offering to help the OP he reached out to me for guidance and prior to my ban I provided the following response in an effort to help the OP out. I find that providing input via PM is more beneficial these days as it helps keep the important stuff from being wasted.

Originally Posted by BOZRX7
Hey man. Thanks for that info just drew my path to the single turbo route. Well if i may, what would you recomend? Like i said id be using the car mainly on the straights and on the twistys. Which comes to, it being reliable and really responsive. To be precise i want a really quick spooling turbo i know it may be a long shot but my desire is to be hitting full boost at 4k rpm and giving me the 600hp range safely. I dont know of many turbos that would actually do as desires apart from borgwarners. Also pairong it up to a haltech and a e85 compatible fuel system (dont ask me what injectors or pump haha havent done my research on them as of yet).

Thanks in advance. Really appreciated.


And my advice was:

Hey man

I definitely think going single turbo first is the right way to go. Given the motor is a stock port and likely has the old style Mazda 3 piece apex seals, you really shouldn't push it much past about 450hp. The key here is building a quality setup, for a reasonable price, that you can grow up over time as money comes in and as you find you want more and more power. Where people get fucked on these things is they don't plan out their setup for the future, they just buy whatever kit looks good for right now or is on sale and then down the road it doesn't pan out as it wasn't truly sized for the car or fully thought out.

So to properly decide on any rotary turbo setup you have to keep a few things in mind

1. It is a rotary engine, so if you push power into it, it will blow up eventually, no matter what all you do, how good your tuner is, what fuel you use, or whatever. It just happens and is part of the rotary game.

2. IF/WHEN you blow up a motor, it's important that you don't cause a bunch of other expensive damage. Having to pay for an engine rebuild by itself isn't bad, but having to also replace a non-rebuildable $2500 ball bearing turbo because you threw a bunch of apex seals through it when it was turning 60,000 rpms…well that sucks. I learned this one the hard way…

3. When you want to go to a bigger turbo and make more power, you want it to be a drag-and-drop kind of deal where you pull off the old turbo, bolt on the new turbo, make a small piping and downpipe adjustment, and let it ride. Having to overhaul the entire system to upsize a turbo sucks and is very expensive as you NEVER make your money back selling a used turbo kit to buy a new one. You're much better to buy quality parts up front that will support a small to big turbo, buy a smaller turbo to suit your needs, and then grow the turbo size as you and your wallet desire.

The Borg Warner EFR turbos are badass turbos, there is no denying that fact. The problem is they are extremely expensive, you can't rebuild them, and if you throw apex seals through them and trash the turbine, you are totally fucked and have to buy another $1900-$2500 turbo on top of the engine you just trashed, which sucks. If your engine is OEM Mazda and hasn't been rebuilt it likely has the old mazda 2 piece or 3 piece oem seal in it. These are great seals but the problem is IF they let go for any reason, they do not stay in the slot and they WILL go out the exhaust and trash your turbo bigtime. New seals like E&J's or RX-Parts will most likely stay in the slots and just crack so you run less risk of trashing the turbo, but it's still possible.

So where I'm going with all this is…I think the best thing for you to do going single on the motor you have is to buy a quality manifold that can hold anything from about a 60mm to a 80mm turbo and has plenty of flow for both, and then buy a cheaper mid-frame (60-67mm) journal bearing turbo that you can either just not give a **** about, or rebuild for cheap if you want to. You'll also want to get a quality set of wastegates that are a decent size as they can cover the full range of 60mm turbo to a massive one later without requiring upgrade.

You can get PLENTY of spool down low in the low 3000's with a 60-67mm turbo and keep a decent sized hot side on it so that it pulls well up top too. Most of this is in the tune. People said the EFR9180 would be laggy as it was the biggest EFR borg makes, but I was spooling 21 lbs by 3400 and 30psi by 4000. It really is all in the tune, but that is a different topic. My point being…you may gain like 200-300 rpms worth of earlier spool on a ball bearing over a journal bearing, but you risk ******* yourself bigtime on money every time you floor it. Journal bearing is like $300 to rebuild.

The new Borg Warner SX-E turbos are extremely kickass, extremely reasonably priced, cheaply rebuildable, and have some crazy good looking compressor maps showing GREAT low end response and flow up top. I also really like the journal bearing precision turbos. We made 503hp on a friend’s never rebuilt 22+ year old OEM Mazda stock port keg with a precision 6266 and he ran that at the track hard for a long time. Honestly, if I was picking out a turbo in your shoes, I'd buy either the Borg Warner S366 or S369 SX-E turbo with a T4 1.0 hot side housing. So for piecing the turbo kit portion together…I would budget for something kind of like this

Turbo - Borg S366 or S369 SX-E w/ 1.0 hot side - $1000
Quality twin gate long runner manifold (full race or John Gleason who is the best out there) - $1000-$1200
Quality set of wastegates (the new Turbosmart gen 5's are BADASS) - $600
Turbo oil feed/return lines and fittings, random gaskets, block off plates, and general single turbo stuff - $200

And your new turbo system will be ~ $3000 max and all you'll need is a local welder to weld you up a down pipe. In my opinion, you'll have a significantly higher quality setup than the turblown "kit" where it’s a $2500 turbo that you may destroy, a piece of **** tiny cast manifold, internal wastegate that is too small, and no room to grow larger without having to buy another stupid expensive turbo.

Sorry for the novel, I know it's a lot of info I just really enjoy turbo car stuff and am truly passionate about it. When you're ready to talk ECU's and fuel systems just let me know

Skeese


We were in the process of a follow up conversation when I was banned for making the joke about it being hilariously ironic the adaptronic link didn't work correctly. I do what I can to help and offer informative, rational, justified guidance to those willing to read and learn. I'm tired of the retarded bickering and frankly don't have time for it anymore. My advice is just that. Nobody has to like me, like it, or take it.

If I end up banned, you can find my personal contact info on these forums with a minor amount of searching. I'm also open to all discussion how to best build, spec and tune a rx7 to meet your goals.

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Old 09-04-18, 08:13 PM
  #24  
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To the OP, I don't think anyone has actually asked whether you will be tuning this yourself. It's all well and good to weigh up pros and cons of different ECUs and whether they have good user documentation etc, but the lack of a support manual is largely irrelevant if the person doing the tune knows their way around the product. While the advice in here is well-intentioned (and not necessarily wrong either!), what they might not appreciate is that in Sydney you have an endless source of tuners who can easily get you 500rwhp from a 13B from many different platforms. There are several well respected tuners in Sydney who know Adaptronic Modulars and will be able to tune them for you - it's actually where Adaptronic is based. I can think of 2 off the top of my head and I don't even live in NSW. That said, there are heaps of tuners who can do Haltech or Microtech for that matter. There will be certain features you get with different ECUs (eg Microtech can't do sequential twin turbos) but primarily the platform you use should be the one your tuner is familiar with and recommends.
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Old 09-04-18, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by KYPREO View Post
To the OP, I don't think anyone has actually asked whether you will be tuning this yourself. It's all well and good to weigh up pros and cons of different ECUs and whether they have good user documentation etc, but the lack of a support manual is largely irrelevant if the person doing the tune knows their way around the product. While the advice in here is well-intentioned (and not necessarily wrong either!), what they might not appreciate is that in Sydney you have an endless source of tuners who can easily get you 500rwhp from a 13B from many different platforms. There are several well respected tuners in Sydney who know Adaptronic Modulars and will be able to tune them for you - it's actually where Adaptronic is based. I can think of 2 off the top of my head and I don't even live in NSW. That said, there are heaps of tuners who can do Haltech or Microtech for that matter. There will be certain features you get with different ECUs (eg Microtech can't do sequential twin turbos) but primarily the platform you use should be the one your tuner is familiar with and recommends.
I think what triggered this whole thing is how the OP was "thinking of going Haltech" and then the following post is a sales ad saying that Adaptronic Factory Twin Turbo control is "easier," when in fact, he didn't even know the Haltech HAD it integrated. It's a case of not knowing what all is available from the "competition", also known as ignorance.

What needed to be established first was the original post context, which is whether or not to go Single Turbo on a Stock Block or Bridgeport on a set of Factory Twin Turbos. ALL of that is covered in the quality posts above.

Last edited by RGHTBrainDesign; 09-04-18 at 09:54 PM.
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