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Single or Bridgeport

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Old 08-09-18, 05:33 AM
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Single or Bridgeport

Hey guys in need of some advise please. Im new to the rotary world and am not sure which way to go about on my 2002 Mazda RX7 Series 8. 2 options go single turbo or bridgeport and keep the twins (till i can afford a single &#128514. My goal for the car is around 500hp to 650hp at the wheels by the end of my build. Mainly be used for on and off track days and street use.
So my main confusion with going single is that i want to go for a single turbo that will allow me to hit boost early around the 3k mark. Ive got my eyes on one turbo and that is the Borgwarner EFR 9180 1.05 A/R. Hence I have got a bone stock motor only mods are front mount intercooler and a catback exhaust ( will be going full exhaust if i purchase the single turbo) will it effect my motor in any way is the question? Would i need to port or what not? Is it overkill for my goal hp? Yes i will be running e85 and will be getting the fuel system changed with the any path i take single or bridgy. Also with the ecu im thinking of going haltech (or can take any other suggestions? :/ ). Also will be updating my suspension and wheel sizes and what not in the mean time. This link shows the kit that caught my eye any reviews or other suggestions?

https://turbosource.com/products/turblown-engineering-investment-cast-347ss-t4-twinscroll-fd3s-ewg-turbo-kit

or just get the motor bridgeported dowled studded etc and go e85 with full exhaust system and get the single turbo later on down the track. The only problem i have with this is that i dont want to be wasting money on a downpipe and a ecu due to haltech ecu not reacting to well to the twins.

Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

p.s. im located in Australia if that helps haha.

Last edited by BOZRX7; 08-09-18 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 08-09-18, 08:58 PM
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You do not need a ported engine to make power, it just makes it easier to hit higher peak numbers if done correctly. 500rwhp does not require any engine internal modifications either, especially if using E85. I do not know if the Haltech does sequential twin turbo control or not, better post in the Haltech section. The Adaptronic PNP models are the easier for sequential twin turbo control( they obviously support single turbos too, and in the event you are going with one of our EFR kits, we have pre made base maps, offer remote tuning etc).
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Old 08-10-18, 01:10 AM
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Hmm makes sense. Sure am looking at your kits. Sound really good for the kind of set up im after. If you dont mind me asking would i be able to match it up with any other manifold if i want to change later on down the track?

Also what ecu do you guys prefer? Haltech has an ecu specifically for the twins i know that. Im really after a good ecu something i wont have to send twice on and something that may provide antilag and to see what temps and what not im running, like the Apexi power fc does.
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Old 08-10-18, 03:54 AM
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Bridgeport is a waste of time with factory or small single turbos.

anti-lag without ceramic apex seals and rally spec turbines (garrett offer these not sure about others) will shorten the lift of the engine and turbo significantly on a rotary. With reasonable porting and and efr turbo in conjuction with ethanol fuel and a big exhaust you should have very good boost response anyway.
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Old 08-10-18, 09:07 PM
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Aha, makes sense. Well then i guess ill be doing one more comp test to see the health if the engine and then ill choose the route i would need to take. Hopefully the engines perfect ! Its on about 125 thousand kms so it may need a rebuild 😔
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Old 08-15-18, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Turblown View Post
You do not need a ported engine to make power, it just makes it easier to hit higher peak numbers if done correctly. 500rwhp does not require any engine internal modifications either, especially if using E85. I do not know if the Haltech does sequential twin turbo control or not, better post in the Haltech section. The Adaptronic PNP models are the easier for sequential twin turbo control( they obviously support single turbos too, and in the event you are going with one of our EFR kits, we have pre made base maps, offer remote tuning etc).
I say this all the time, but now with the merger specifically, you should know this. The answer is YES!

There's nothing easier about an undeveloped software with zero support manual, so stop throwing sales bullshit into people's faces when it's NOT asked for.




Haltech can really take advantage of the PORTING of an engine with a simple solenoid via its "Dual Runner Control" in which you install butterflies on the UIM that are closed under a certain RPM, and open above another RPM given the load of the engine is higher than some point. This gives you the best response/torque and efficiency and how Honda has been doing it since the early 90s. Works wonders for small displacement engines.

When it comes to the rest of the build, I'd say it depends on how you're driving the car. Are you doing a lot of straight line stuff, track usage (as you've said), or do you have a set of local twisty roads that you're burning through?

Rate These in the order they matter to you:

Response/Acceleration
Reliability
Refinement
Top Speed
Fuel Economy

Personally, I'd run the following setup in your shoes:

Start with a PROPER Fuel System sized for your needs.
Go with a turbo that fits your needs based on the above information.
Leave the engine stock with Elite Rotary Studs.

Last edited by SirLaughsALot; 08-15-18 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 08-15-18, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Turblown View Post
You do not need a ported engine to make power, it just makes it easier to hit higher peak numbers if done correctly. 500rwhp does not require any engine internal modifications either, especially if using E85. I do not know if the Haltech does sequential twin turbo control or not, better post in the Haltech section. The Adaptronic PNP models are the easier for sequential twin turbo control( they obviously support single turbos too, and in the event you are going with one of our EFR kits, we have pre made base maps, offer remote tuning etc).
Haltech absolutely has has twin turbo control, but you wouldn't know that since we know you're a 1 trick pony Shawn. Not only does it have the feature, but it works and works well.

To the OP,

The combination of a bridge port and the OEM twins is a recipe for disaster. The bridge port will flow a significant amount more air than the stock port will and in turn will have a significantly higher volume of exhaust gas flow. Combine that with the use of E85 where you flow ~35% more fuel by volume as well, and the amount of exhaust mass coming out of that block will greatly exceed the flow potential of that manifold and those little turbos. This will result in a massive amount of backpressure and heat. With the large amount of intake/exhaust overlap a bridge has, you are prone to re-ingesting HOT exhaust gas into the intake anytime the exhaust pressure is greater than the intake pressure, which would be really really early on with a big flow big port motor driving all that hot flow into a choke. Not to mention the twins are specifically sized for the opposite of what the bridge port is intended to to. The result would be complete counter productive and with time cook you motor.

There's a number of ways to get to where you want to be, but I think your best path forward is to go single on the stock port block for now and build a solid capable setup including quality fuel system, turbo, manifold and ECU (haltech/fueltech, something that is complete and actually has proven success and support) and then run it in the low 400's for a while and have fun. You'd be surprised how fast and fun a 400hp single turbo street FD can be with a quick spool.

Once you've had some time with it, you can decide if you REALLY want to deal with the big port motor life. I went directly from a stock port to a fully build semi peripheral port and I can and will tell you, that it changes the car significantly and you want to be sure the power is really that important to you before you do it.

You can do a solid well built single turbo setup that will out perform all these "kits" for significantly less if you know what you want and what to look for. If you need help picking out a setup, feel free to PM me. I'm not trying to sell you anything so you won't get any bullshit.

Skeese
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Old 08-17-18, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
I say this all the time, but now with the merger specifically, you should know this. The answer is YES!

There's nothing easier about an undeveloped software with zero support manual, so stop throwing sales bullshit into people's faces when it's NOT asked for.




Haltech can really take advantage of the PORTING of an engine with a simple solenoid via its "Dual Runner Control" in which you install butterflies on the UIM that are closed under a certain RPM, and open above another RPM given the load of the engine is higher than some point. This gives you the best response/torque and efficiency and how Honda has been doing it since the early 90s. Works wonders for small displacement engines.

When it comes to the rest of the build, I'd say it depends on how you're driving the car. Are you doing a lot of straight line stuff, track usage (as you've said), or do you have a set of local twisty roads that you're burning through?

Rate These in the order they matter to you:

Response/Acceleration
Reliability
Refinement
Top Speed
Fuel Economy

Personally, I'd run the following setup in your shoes:

Start with a PROPER Fuel System sized for your needs.
Go with a turbo that fits your needs based on the above information.
Leave the engine stock with Elite Rotary Studs.
Well thats the information that I was lurking for haha. Thanks man ! Well if i was to be putting it in percentage format 70% of the time itd be used for the straights and the rest 30% will be on the twistys so i really wouldnt mind something that will be responsive and reliable i guess... Fuel economy i dont mind much... i bought a rx7 loll. Seems like the Haltech may be the "go to". Any specific model that you recomend and add ons?
Thanks in advance 👌
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Old 08-17-18, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Skeese View Post
Haltech absolutely has has twin turbo control, but you wouldn't know that since we know you're a 1 trick pony Shawn. Not only does it have the feature, but it works and works well.

To the OP,

The combination of a bridge port and the OEM twins is a recipe for disaster. The bridge port will flow a significant amount more air than the stock port will and in turn will have a significantly higher volume of exhaust gas flow. Combine that with the use of E85 where you flow ~35% more fuel by volume as well, and the amount of exhaust mass coming out of that block will greatly exceed the flow potential of that manifold and those little turbos. This will result in a massive amount of backpressure and heat. With the large amount of intake/exhaust overlap a bridge has, you are prone to re-ingesting HOT exhaust gas into the intake anytime the exhaust pressure is greater than the intake pressure, which would be really really early on with a big flow big port motor driving all that hot flow into a choke. Not to mention the twins are specifically sized for the opposite of what the bridge port is intended to to. The result would be complete counter productive and with time cook you motor.

There's a number of ways to get to where you want to be, but I think your best path forward is to go single on the stock port block for now and build a solid capable setup including quality fuel system, turbo, manifold and ECU (haltech/fueltech, something that is complete and actually has proven success and support) and then run it in the low 400's for a while and have fun. You'd be surprised how fast and fun a 400hp single turbo street FD can be with a quick spool.

Once you've had some time with it, you can decide if you REALLY want to deal with the big port motor life. I went directly from a stock port to a fully build semi peripheral port and I can and will tell you, that it changes the car significantly and you want to be sure the power is really that important to you before you do it.

You can do a solid well built single turbo setup that will out perform all these "kits" for significantly less if you know what you want and what to look for. If you need help picking out a setup, feel free to PM me. I'm not trying to sell you anything so you won't get any bullshit.

Skeese
Aha well that sounds like a plan. Eventually i will be getting the bridgeport whatever it takes really. On the other hand, i have PM'd you. Would be really happy if you may direct me.
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Old 08-17-18, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BOZRX7 View Post
Aha well that sounds like a plan. Eventually i will be getting the bridgeport whatever it takes really. On the other hand, i have PM'd you. Would be really happy if you may direct me.
Extended reply sent via PM with my thoughts and reasoning on turbo sizing for what you're looking for and how to do it with room to grow when you eventually rebuild and move to a larger port without having to overhaul the whole system to accomodate it.

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Old 08-17-18, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BOZRX7 View Post
Well thats the information that I was lurking for haha. Thanks man ! Well if i was to be putting it in percentage format 70% of the time itd be used for the straights and the rest 30% will be on the twistys so i really wouldnt mind something that will be responsive and reliable i guess... Fuel economy i dont mind much... i bought a rx7 loll. Seems like the Haltech may be the "go to". Any specific model that you recomend and add ons?
Thanks in advance 👌
All I recommend is that you try out each one of these software packages and familiarize yourself with them fully. I'm not a salesman.
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Old 08-17-18, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
All I recommend is that you try out each one of these software packages and familiarize yourself with them fully. I'm not a salesman.
Solid point. Will do 👌🤣
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Old 08-18-18, 06:24 PM
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There's someone running a twins bridgeport locally on about a bar - non sequential - on an ethanol mix, about 350hp dyno dynamics. You're off with the fairies with a genuine 500/650 and using it on the track (as in circuit use) without spending massively on driveline, as you'll be killing stock stuff, stone dead every other time.....and wouldn't be too hopeful on extended life of the engine in that use either.

If you're a young guy, hope you have deep pockets and lots of time getting defects cleared, I can just see the cash register eyes now, the giveaway brap and stinky idle = boys in blue rubbing their hands together in glee!
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Old 08-18-18, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by billyboy View Post
There's someone running a twins bridgeport locally on about a bar - non sequential - on an ethanol mix, about 350hp dyno dynamics. You're off with the fairies with a genuine 500/650 and using it on the track (as in circuit use) without spending massively on driveline, as you'll be killing stock stuff, stone dead every other time.....and wouldn't be too hopeful on extended life of the engine in that use either.

If you're a young guy, hope you have deep pockets and lots of time getting defects cleared, I can just see the cash register eyes now, the giveaway brap and stinky idle = boys in blue rubbing their hands together in glee!
Haha like i said will be getting the driveline upgraded along the path of my setups. As for the boys in blue... well lets just pray that they stay away from the stinky idling machine 🤣
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