SETaylor

iTrader: (4)

Greetings all.
I am in the planning stages of a single turbo conversion for my third gen which I intend on primarily using for HPDE/ time trial/ hill climb events. Think Brad Barber's "Killer Bee" (really cool dude!) or Guy's old ITE car but with lights, power windows, and no lexan (for now). I am not as near as knowledgeable wrt compressor sizing for a given application as many who frequent this sub-forum, so here we are.

I am working with an unopened stock port "series 8" engine that I purchased new a couple of years ago. While I am aware that the EFR 8374 and company are all the rage these days (and likely for good reason), the implementation of one would cut into my safety equipment budget more than I would like, and at this stage (and likely for a very long time), my desired maximum power output is no greater than 420 wheel on 93 octane pump fuel and may include water injection. I would like to have it ported eventually (when the water seals let go. I have been advised it generally takes 60 hours of track use for that to happen)

For this reason, I have decided to explore other options.

My main objective(s) are the following:

• "best" reasonable transient response that can realistically be achieved with pump fuel and a journal bearing.
• efficient enough that it doesn't run out of turbine near the top end and create associated issues. (too much heat, etc.)

The following are of interest. I will be using one of Howard Coleman's manifolds with a single 60mm wastegate.

• BorgWarner S362SXE "8376" with a 0.91 a/r t4 divided turbine housing. I would surmise that this would require a ported engine for it to exhibit characteristics that are comparable to what has been reported by those who use them. (which would also cut into my safety equipment budget)
• BorgWarner S261SXE with either the 1.15 a/r or 1.22 t4 divided turbine housing. I have been advised that this can flow 70 lbs of air but has a significantly smaller turbine wheel than the S362SXE. Is it reasonable for me to conclude that with the aforementioned turbine housings, I can achieve a decently "fast" spool? (think 14 psi under 3600 rpm) I have a 3.9 rear end in the car on account of it being a manual convert, so I could potentially put a 4.10, 4.44 or a 4.77 in its place.

Could someone please advise as to whether either of these is a good match for what I am trying to do and if so, why? Or, if there are other journal bearing offerings that I have not considered that may fit the bill?
Am I misunderstanding how this works at a fundamental level?

All input is appreciated

Slides

You can get Pulsar SXE or G series clones both with ceramic roller bearings for similar or less than the cost of BW SX plain bearing turbos. Hard to go past a G30 or sxe200 series with roller bearings for that application.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (2)

^^the only potential problem there is that Pulsar has limited turbine housings and that maybe forces you into either maybe going with a less optimum frame size to have the proper turbine flow or having to order the much higher priced (~3x) Garrett turbine housing.

However I can offer up a hybrid S261 SXE fitted with an S362 SXE compressor and a 1.25 A/R div T4. Essentially an 8370 with 74 turbine flow potential. Which those turbine housings have a T4 flange, but T3 size ports, but I already ported it out to the T4 port size. It has maybe 30 minutes run time on it. In the middle of a turbo manifold redesign and planned to do testing with it, but have so many other things going on I’d just cut you a deal on it. Because I may never get to going any further on it. PM me if interested.
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Molotovman

iTrader: (49)

By the time you workup a turbo, manifold, wastegate, wastegate recirculation pipe/welding, and a charge relief valve you're close enough to the EFR series to make it worth it. It's much easier from a serviceability standpoint as well.
I'd just save more and go with the EFR option, the lead time is so long now you'll have plenty of time to save..............

SETaylor

iTrader: (4)

Greatly appreciate the advice, folks.
@TeamRX8 May have to think long and hard about your proposition, though I'd have to offload some stuff I have laying around first. Were you able to gain any interesting data during the time you were using it?

@Molotovman That is also something I had been thinking about. I got the manifold and downpipe (unused) in exchange for doing work on another car/ they wanted it gone and I was looking for one. My only concern is the fact that the EFR(s) are not advertised as being rebuildable nor will BorgWarner supply the parts to do so. It will probably be the best performing option for my application. I should probably find someone with one of them on a two rotor and make them drive me around or something.

@Slides Interesting to hear about Pulsar as a potential choice. After a cursory internet search, seems that while these are copies, they are about as well put together as a copy could be, and also happen to be made in the same country as the G-series offerings from Garrett. I have heard some talk of them not being properly balanced, although I have yet to determine if others have come to a similar conclusion. Have you heard anything similar with respect to them on wankels?

Slides

I am on several Australian groups for tuning/modifying, rotary groups, general performance/drag, have yet to see a failure claimed by anyone, people putting them on engine builds with everything other than the head/block replaced running methanol drag boost. If there was a problem it should have shown itself by now.

Quite a few well regarded workshops using them as their first choice option for high power packages, I think people usually only buy Garrett now for the sticker or Pulsar doesn't have what they want. Given Garrett have moved production to China anyway and downsized their US engineering its a hard sell for you guys to say you are supporting US jobs buying from Garrett.

SETaylor

iTrader: (4)

I figured as such. Perhaps it was nothing more than conjecture.

On a slightly related note, I really enjoy all of the technical developments and the like that come from the rotary crowd over on that side of the world with the knowledge base that they have over there. Seems to be less "smoke and mirrors" games than on this side of the fence with respect to potentially fallaciously reasoned conclusions that end up becoming professed as fact and at times to the detriment of all. I'd like to think it has something to do with there being a larger market for these kinds of things over there.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (2)

While some of the components are interchangeable, they aren’t exact duplicates.

Yet to see a direct one on one test to demonstrate what or if there’s any determinable difference between them …
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rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Depends how deep you look.

So far ive been able to swap compressor covers and rear housings as well as clamps etc.

Can swap a car from garrett to pulsar and vice vera and everything bolts up.

As far as the cartridge itself. I am not sure. Have not cut one open.

I have had a few pulsars fail but there warranty system is good and they replaced them no questions asked.