turbostreetfighter

i am not going to post any names but to make a long story short i purchased my twins brand new and from the first 30 seconds they were on the car they have been leaking out of the turbine side BAD! as in after you turn the car off they would leave a 4" dia spot of oil on the ground!! at first i thought that it was my drains but i changed them four times and i also ran restrictors in the feed line. all of this slowed it down but they still bleed on the ground. now here is the kicker...i sent them back (keep in mind i have not even been on thetrack with them yet and have been at 22psi only 10 times) they called me back and said that the reason they are leaking is because my oil is contaminated with metal!!! so naturally i drain the oil, take off all of the oil lines , cut the filter apart and clean everything out into white rags and paper filters! guess what....no ******* metal anywhere! now folks this is not my first rodeo, i have been doing this for a long time and have never heard of this. to me it seems that contaminated oil would not cause a fluid leak with dynamic seals. oh yeah, the turbos have absolutely no play in them ,thrust or up and down. my question is if anyone has heard of this kind of crap and what do you think causes the leak?

frustrated MWW

turbostreetfighter

i forgot to mention this...they want me to pay 225 each to repair them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF they are only three weeks old and were not cheap in the first place!

MWW

fdracer

why don't you get a second opinion from somewhere else?

turbostreetfighter

because they already have my ******* turbo's and i would like to get to the track before the end of the year !!!

RX794

Can I ask something? Is the place you got them from T.......... ?

93 R1

Actually yes. A friend bought a turbo for his supra and blew the seals out within like 2 weeks. Same situation. He said **** it and went with a different manufacturer.

Good luck...

RICE RACING

Well sounds a bit suspect to me, I had a brand new turbo leak oil on a customers car, but along with this it was blowing smoke after 20psi runs......the cause, was a wrongly hooked up breather causing the sump to be pressurized.

Simply let the sump breath and problem has never reocured, I am not sure how the carbon seal in the back of the turbo can get damaged, unless it was bad when they put it in. The excuse they are using is bullshit, becasue all the bearings shaft bearings and thrust bearing would be screwed too if you had metal in the oil.
Are they saying only the seal needs to be replaced? Something does not add up if you have done the right thing and you have no metal contamination.

forcefed7

I've seen the problem with a Dual BB setup. The turbo has already gone back twice, for the same problem. Oil leaking into the turbine section. It has been a disappointment, but to their credit they have tried to fix the problem free of charge both time. This same turbo just came back a few days ago and they claim to have fixed the problem with a redesigned bearing so I guess we'll see.

Resource

Is this with the SPL or KAI?

turbostreetfighter

both of the turbos leaked the first time i fired the car up! i agree Rice , that there is no way that oil contamination would cause the seal to go bad ESPECIALLY since the turbos are/were still tight.


MWW

crispeed

Turbine end oil leakage like what you're experiencing is manufacturer deffect. They need to warranty those turbos because they messed up! It's most likely a broken or out of spec turbine wheel piston /ring seal. It could also be the bore on the cartridge.
Anyhow if it was me they would be repairing them for free or swallowing lead!

crispeed
87 RX-7 TII
9.204@150.47mph
2600lbs
un-tubbed

forcefed7

Both of my T51's have standard bearings, it was on a GT61.

Resource

Damn, I guess you just have turbos just layin around huh

turbostreetfighter

that is what i think too Crispeed! it is just funny how two turbos did it at the same time!!!! just my luck, they were supposed to have them back to me today so i could go to the track tonight but i will not get them until tomorrow ..via the bus! so maybe i will go next week.

RX794

OK, lemme tell you guys something about T.........., they are no doubt about it the WORST turbo builders I've EVER seen, my friends that run those turbos go through rebuilds and rebuilds and rebuilds over and over and over time and time again for no reason. One of my buddies went through 5 turbos in 6 months!!!!!!!!, and no it wasn't due to the oil return(one of their repetative excuses), and no, the motor never went and threw anything into any of the turbos either. They just plain SUCK! Meanwhile some of my other buddies who have bought turbos from any major Japanease manufacturer, or Garrett, KKK, etc. don't have these weird "blow for nothing" problems. I have consulted with a few turbo builders and racers, they all tend to agree with the same answer, plain and simple they will not buy turbos from that company anymore. T.......... doesn't take responsibilty for any of their defects when they manufactuer turbos and send them to you, then they claim that YOU didn't install them correctly, or didn't provide the proper oil feed, return, etc. The only people who run these turbos with no bad experience that I know of, are the people who are sponsored by this company.

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

T....... may not be the only turbo manufacturer or rebuilder subject to these issues. I don't want to drop names but suffice it to say there are quite a few details that must be held to close tolerances otherwise the turbo will be a smoker.

Marcus, with two bad turbos it would appear to be an issue with the manu's parts or assembly, both turbos are smoking so their quality control system is spot on making sure the turbos are consistent. Since I know you personally, I highly doubt it would be on your end given the time you have put into this car. When you decide to go with another turbo manufacturer let us know where these two smokers came from.

Kyle

turbostreetfighter

i am getting them back tomorrow and since i have been buying turbos (a pretty good amount) from them they claim they will work with me! here is one thing that all of you rotor heads should consider: where does the oil flow go once it has left the pump? straight to the oil filter and then back in to the engine so how in the hell can ANY thing larger than 10 microns get past the oil filter and into the turbo? even if you spin a bearing the metal will not get past the filter!!!! why dont they just admit they were wrong,******* fix it and move on, insstead of giving me some lame *** excuse? i have refrained from cussing them out because they have my turbos and i need them back either way.


MWW

cement

the fact that both turbochargers were passing oil would indicate a system fault , but having read the thread you have eliminated the drains and obviously looked into making sure the breather is ok ,the fact the turbo's have been rebuilt we can also eliminate the bearing housing being coked with carbon etc

as far as internally with the turbocharger if they are saying you had oil contamination ask to see your bearings and old piston ring/rings ,call their bluff ,sounds like crap too me
ok as far as the piston ring's go as already mentioned it could either be a bore issue on the bearing housing where it seats (the surface can become pitted ,worn ) or the ring groove on the wheel and shaft is worn from thrust (leaves a step as well as a tapered groove) or they have used the wrong piston ring when assembling

piston rings can wear prematurely ,if when machining the ring groove to accept an oversize ring they take too much material off the front of the ring groove and this can cause binding when the turbocharger is assembled ,as far as a piston rings failing so soon after a rebuild i have never seen this and usually they only fail after the bearings have been contaminated or had lack of lubricant and the wheels start slapping against the housings

it really is a shame some companies arent capable of reconditioning turbochargers back to O.E.M. specs especially when the customer is paying for this service

oh and ive been out of the game for a few years now but up too when i did leave carbon seals were only used on the comp side ,are they using them on the turbine side as well now Rice Racing ???

turbostreetfighter

thes turbos had dynamic seals on the turbine side but i have heard of a carbon seal option for the turbine side.

the turbos had absolutely no play in them so i think they were not specd right.this happened immediately after the car had been started!

i am confused though in how a breather issue would make the turbo smoke???? i know it can make your engine smoke but what does that have to do with the oil going into the turbo? i have a catch can that use the intake from the turbo to pull vacuum on the crankcase so i know that is not an issue with my car.


MWW

Marcel Burkett

Remember the oil return from the turbo/s go the sump , if this is under enough pressure the gravity flow from the turbos could be slowed causing it to collect in the bearing housing and over flow into the turbine and/or compressor.

cement

Marcus as Marcel said any pressure in that sump is going to slow oil flow out of the bearing housing and the piston ring is only a dynamic seal so any build up of oil will pass this "splash" seal ,as well pressure will be trying to escape though what ever means it takes and a piston ring offers little restriction
something to remember for everyone once you add a turbocharger to your engine its now part of that engine and should not be looked upon as merely an accessory ,too many times turbocharger problems are incorrectly diagnosed and end up being system faults to blame which isnt the case here
it would be nice to know what they found when they stripped your turbo's Marcus ,one of two things either they put them back together with standard piston rings after they had oversized the ring groove or bearing housing seat or they couldnt of been bothered doing this oversizing in the first place

well good luck for the second time around anyway

Marcus can you remember who it was that offered the carbon seal option for the turbine side ?

turbostreetfighter

got the new ones back to day and they work great! i also go tthe old parts back and guess what the mystery contaminate is? ****** bead blast!!! i am sending the sample to a lab to make sure that is what it is. if it is they can kiss my ***!!!

cement , if i am not mistaken the new turbonetics catalog has and option in it.

MWW

RICE RACING

Excellent news

Shame they try to "pull the wool" over your eyes, by coming up with a BS story though.......You better pull your engine apart because of that metal contamination though

cement

oh well good to see you had a win in more ways then one
well leaving bead blast in a turbo is a new option i havent heard of ,thats scary stuff ,i can only assume they didnt clean the oil galleries out which is inexcuseable considering whilst prepping the components for reassembly one final check is to hold the bearing housing up to a light source and thoroughly check the galleries ,i'd be looking for a new turbocharger reconditioner ,we had strict cleaning measures we followed on each and every turbocharger regardless of whether it was off a stinkin old diesel or a high performance application

so what else was replaced Marcus ???

turbostreetfighter

i dont really know, and to be honest i did not ask!!!
i am having issues with crankcase pressure though, i cannot seem to get enough out.


MWW