Picture Request all turbos!
12-09-10, 05:03 AM
#1
Picture Request all turbos!
I'm looking for pictures of turbine wheels.
Specifically a normal T04Z p-trim, so I can compare it to the pre- T04Z turbine wheel. Also interested to see pictures of o-trim and Q-trim if possible.
I'm mostly interested to see which turbine wheels/shafts have blades with the full fan edge.
Would also love a shot of a HKS T04Z pooper if possible
Specifically a normal T04Z p-trim, so I can compare it to the pre- T04Z turbine wheel. Also interested to see pictures of o-trim and Q-trim if possible.
I'm mostly interested to see which turbine wheels/shafts have blades with the full fan edge.
Would also love a shot of a HKS T04Z pooper if possible
12-11-10, 11:02 PM
#2
Cmon people. Most of your cars are in pieces anyway.
The turbo on the 6 cyl manifold is another project I'm working on atm. That is an 11-blade p-trim turbine wheel.
Can someone please post a picture of a genuine Garrett T04Z and also a HKS T04Z showing the turbine wheel.
Also in the 2nd image, does anyone know what turbine wheel that is. Precision sell that ball bearing unit, it still has 11-blades, I dunno if its p-trim.
The turbo on the 6 cyl manifold is another project I'm working on atm. That is an 11-blade p-trim turbine wheel.
Can someone please post a picture of a genuine Garrett T04Z and also a HKS T04Z showing the turbine wheel.
Also in the 2nd image, does anyone know what turbine wheel that is. Precision sell that ball bearing unit, it still has 11-blades, I dunno if its p-trim.
12-15-10, 12:17 PM
#3
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I can tell you for sure that Precision's turbine wheels are the Turbonetics F1 series, or at least their newer turbos are. I.E. 6765 -> F1-65 65mm turbine, it has the same inducer/exducer as a P-trim but with a taller profile. Here's a pic of Precision/Turbonetics 68mm (F1-68, or Q-Trim) turbine wheel:
12-15-10, 12:46 PM
#4
I can tell you for sure that Precision's turbine wheels are the Turbonetics F1 series, or at least their newer turbos are. I.E. 6765 -> F1-65 65mm turbine, it has the same inducer/exducer as a P-trim but with a taller profile. Here's a pic of Precision/Turbonetics 68mm (F1-68, or Q-Trim) turbine wheel:
I've got a few more pics to share. I wasn't going to put anymore up but I will now
12-15-10, 01:06 PM
#5
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No problem man, so to answer your question I don't know if the T04Z p-trim wheels do differ at all (don't think they do) but precision's are definitely different, and require either machined P-trim housings for the taller profile wheel or exhaust housings specifically built for the Turbonetics F1-65 wheel
12-15-10, 01:28 PM
#6
Could you please post a bit looking straight into the back of the turbine wheel? Cheers for showing the measurements 
My attachments in order,
#1 Garrett T04Z
#2 HKS T04Z
#3 Mazda Hitachi FC3S turbine wheel (highflow)
Its interesting to see that the turbonetics F1 turbos have 'garrett' GT looking blades with that odd shape about them.
The journal bearing p-trim's look like they have a factory style back cut. And both flavours of T04Z seem to have the full blade p-trim but not the 'funky' garrett GT style blade.
My goal for my next turbo is to get the lightest smallest turbine wheel with the best available aero and then match it properly to a compressor wheel.
I am prepared to go ball bearing if it means I get all of the above but I'd prefer to use journal bearings still.
Lets try and get some more pictures up OK!
Rice racing's 13B-REW has shown he could make ~480BHP @ 20psi intake pressure, 19psi turbo side backpressure (4psi exhaust backpressure)using a 1.0 split pulse T04Z using a large streetport. He has also stated he is using a returned wastegate anda 5" core SMB metal cat. That feels like a waste to me tho because the Z is a 75lb/min fan and clearly its not going to get there without a bigger turbine housing.
Another Australian car he played a part in has claimined 720BHP on pump fuel using a T04R w/1.32 oldschool p-trim turbo. This car had/has a full turbo bridge port and was said to run 24psi boost for this number.
Yet another Australian car documented on the forum shows ~514BHP from a H-trim/p-trim 1.32 setup on 19psi @ much less revs. With a held flat top (25psi in upper midrange documented on forum).
Both the p-trim 1.32 cars are obviously too laggy for what I'm trying to do looking at their in-car movies.
Then theres the rotorgirl and rotorpsi1 cars also in the 700+BHP category but i'm not prepared to go that big in turbo.
My current 12AT setup is around ~400BHP @ 13psi intake pressure, estimated 25psi turbo side backpressure unknown exhaust backpressure. I'm using the Mazda hitachi and a small street port. My current setup makes BULK midrange but I still want to keep developing it with the smallest losses in transient response possible.
So I suppose the question's I now want to answer are....
#1 Can you buy turbonetics F1-62 or F1-68 turbine shafts/wheels separately from a turbo
#2 Do Garrett factory ball bearing 60-1/p-trim turbos use a T04Z style turbine wheel/shaft
#3 How much better are the T'netics F1-62 turbine wheels for spool/flow than the T04Z style wheel?
I wondering if the newer tech turbine wheels produce less lift but also less backpressure than the T04Z style full blade p-trims. So are the newest wheels somewhere between the full blade p-trim and backcut style p-trim?
I will probably answer that last idea by spending some time trying to compare the Z turbine 0.84 flow map I have against a Garrett GT lineup flow map around the same dimensions and A/R.
My attachments in order,
#1 Garrett T04Z
#2 HKS T04Z
#3 Mazda Hitachi FC3S turbine wheel (highflow)
Its interesting to see that the turbonetics F1 turbos have 'garrett' GT looking blades with that odd shape about them.
The journal bearing p-trim's look like they have a factory style back cut. And both flavours of T04Z seem to have the full blade p-trim but not the 'funky' garrett GT style blade.
My goal for my next turbo is to get the lightest smallest turbine wheel with the best available aero and then match it properly to a compressor wheel.
I am prepared to go ball bearing if it means I get all of the above but I'd prefer to use journal bearings still.
Lets try and get some more pictures up OK!
Rice racing's 13B-REW has shown he could make ~480BHP @ 20psi intake pressure, 19psi turbo side backpressure (4psi exhaust backpressure)using a 1.0 split pulse T04Z using a large streetport. He has also stated he is using a returned wastegate anda 5" core SMB metal cat. That feels like a waste to me tho because the Z is a 75lb/min fan and clearly its not going to get there without a bigger turbine housing.
Another Australian car he played a part in has claimined 720BHP on pump fuel using a T04R w/1.32 oldschool p-trim turbo. This car had/has a full turbo bridge port and was said to run 24psi boost for this number.
Yet another Australian car documented on the forum shows ~514BHP from a H-trim/p-trim 1.32 setup on 19psi @ much less revs. With a held flat top (25psi in upper midrange documented on forum).
Both the p-trim 1.32 cars are obviously too laggy for what I'm trying to do looking at their in-car movies.
Then theres the rotorgirl and rotorpsi1 cars also in the 700+BHP category but i'm not prepared to go that big in turbo.
My current 12AT setup is around ~400BHP @ 13psi intake pressure, estimated 25psi turbo side backpressure unknown exhaust backpressure. I'm using the Mazda hitachi and a small street port. My current setup makes BULK midrange but I still want to keep developing it with the smallest losses in transient response possible.
So I suppose the question's I now want to answer are....
#1 Can you buy turbonetics F1-62 or F1-68 turbine shafts/wheels separately from a turbo
#2 Do Garrett factory ball bearing 60-1/p-trim turbos use a T04Z style turbine wheel/shaft
#3 How much better are the T'netics F1-62 turbine wheels for spool/flow than the T04Z style wheel?
I wondering if the newer tech turbine wheels produce less lift but also less backpressure than the T04Z style full blade p-trims. So are the newest wheels somewhere between the full blade p-trim and backcut style p-trim?
I will probably answer that last idea by spending some time trying to compare the Z turbine 0.84 flow map I have against a Garrett GT lineup flow map around the same dimensions and A/R.
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12-15-10, 04:49 PM
#9
F65
Jobro you cant buy the F-series wheel from turbonetics at all,you have to use a turbonetics dealer and they have been out of stock for a while.If you are looking to get one i have a brand new F65
taller Ptrim big shaft wheel FOR SALE.I bought it last year but then i decided to go with the F68 on a divided 1.15 housing.Let me know if you need it and we will work something out.
12-15-10, 05:23 PM
#10
Senior Member
If you are still planning to keep that S5 hotside housing, another option my be to use the GT35 68mm 84 trim exhaust wheel. I was told by a turbo distributor that the shaft specs are the same as
the t4/t3 small shaft varients. That's what I'm planning for a hybrid with either the V-trim wheel I have lying around or mybe the GT30 76mm wheel for a 1:1 wheel ratio. Bbeing newer tech. they are more free flowing which can't hurt the restrictive S5 hotside.
12-16-10, 06:27 PM
#11
I don't know what you mean by highflow, but is that just the stock FC hitachi HT18S-2S exhaust wheel? If it is ,can you post the measurements of that wheel if you have it handy?
If you are still planning to keep that S5 hotside housing, another option my be to use the GT35 68mm 84 trim exhaust wheel. I was told by a turbo distributor that the shaft specs are the same as
the t4/t3 small shaft varients. That's what I'm planning for a hybrid with either the V-trim wheel I have lying around or mybe the GT30 76mm wheel for a 1:1 wheel ratio. Bbeing newer tech. they are more free flowing which can't hurt the restrictive S5 hotside.
If you are still planning to keep that S5 hotside housing, another option my be to use the GT35 68mm 84 trim exhaust wheel. I was told by a turbo distributor that the shaft specs are the same as
the t4/t3 small shaft varients. That's what I'm planning for a hybrid with either the V-trim wheel I have lying around or mybe the GT30 76mm wheel for a 1:1 wheel ratio. Bbeing newer tech. they are more free flowing which can't hurt the restrictive S5 hotside.
1:1 ratio of average area betwen compressor and turbine inducer and exducer is also a load of horse ****.
The only variables you need to care about is the mass of airflow your system can achieve and how efficiently you can combust it.
12-16-10, 09:00 PM
#12
Senior Member
1:1 wheel ratio is a load of horse ****.
1:1 ratio of average area betwen compressor and turbine inducer and exducer is also a load of horse ****.
The only variables you need to care about is the mass of airflow your system can achieve and how efficiently you can combust it.
1:1 ratio of average area betwen compressor and turbine inducer and exducer is also a load of horse ****.
The only variables you need to care about is the mass of airflow your system can achieve and how efficiently you can combust it.
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