sweeley

I bought a datalogit because i feel that the worst thing is being able to build a car and set it up, but not be able to tune it your self. i dont like having to rely on others. you never really know what you will end up with. i have read and read and read about the pfc and datalogit online and in the edit manual from datalogit but there is a ton of information lacking. im new to tuning so i need more info. i wanted to know what you guys have to share. maybe you could post maps and settings and explain what changes you had to make to get the tune right.

i am running a 96a/r p trim 62-1 turbonetics turbo with a street port and all the usual mods. kept the 550 primarys and did the kgparts 1680 secondaries. 3 bar map and walbaro 255 pump. using the innovate lc-1 wide band and xd-16.

im going lean just as the secondaries come on. im not sure what to adjust to correct this. i cant find info on the injector transitions. also not sure to change base map or injector map to add fuel for this issue. im hitting 15 af's when the boost gauge crosses 0-1psi and let out because the fear hits me. my idle is in the low 11 af's and cruising is in the mid 13-14.7 af range. i just need some starting points

im sure you can tell im a noobie if you already know how to tune. im trying to stay safe by asking questions before just messing up an new engine on my own.

also i have read about timing but the information didnt specify leading adjustments vs. trailing and the effects. i have read that the total timing should be between 12-15 degrees for a street ported engine. my knock count at idle is 1-3, cruising low rpms its between 20-80 as rpms rise with little load. higher loads it drops to around 30. it has spiked to 150 range so somthing is obviously wrong with timing as it is. all my maps were loaded by srmotorsports when i purchesed the pfc so im sure i have my work cut out for me.

any help you could provide would be awesome!

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i suggest you post your two timing maps, your fuel map factored to zero on the adjustment scale and your PIM scaling.

howard

sweeley

i cant figure out how to post the maps

arghx

iTrader: (3)

PM Chuck Westbrook (cewrx7r1), he has a tuning notes package and private discussion group which addresses these issues

sweeley

thanks man i sent him a message. hopefully he can help.

sweeley

i uploaded the maps. sot sure if it will work though

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Is your wideband connected to the DL and reading accurately from the software?

Your injector settings are way off. You need to adjust the secondary lag and the transition settings. This post partly covers it. https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...4&postcount=11

What is your fuel pressure with the vacuum line disconnected? Another way to check it is to put the key in the run position (engine off) then jumper the GND and F/P terminals in the diagnostic box. Common numbers are 38psi (which is right around stock), 40psi, and then on a lot of other cars people run 43.5psi (which is exactly 3 bar). I run 43.5 with 720 primary and 1680 secondaries.



That's a solid ballpark range, but it depends on the setup and it depends at what rpm and boost you are talking about. There are two threads in the single turbo archive which discuss timing. They're old now but they give you some exposure to it. To understand timing you have to look at a bunch of maps before it starts to click.

The knock reading can be hard to interpret, and every engine is a little different. But most people would agree that if you are seeing over 100 for knock then it's highly likely you are in fact detonating. And with the map you are using (the one you posted above) it isn't surprising.

I'm not sure what you did versus what they did, but the map you posted is very similar to the default PFC map that is preloaded in the computer. There is slightly more fuel over 4000rpm in some areas, but it is not set up for a single turbo. The timing is the Apex'i default values. On a car with stock ports and stock turbos the leading timing is ok but the trailing is borderline at best. With the additional flow of the single turbo and street port the timing is too aggressive for normal 91 or 93 octane.

Your settings 4 IGN vs water temp tables are overkill. Your fan trigger temps are still at the default values... I would set all three values the same, anywhere from 87 - 95 degrees depending on your preference. You have the INJ adjust maps in settings 3. Most people don't use those unless it's a quick and dirty change in the Commander or something. You're better off editing the INJ or basemap (i use the base x INJ view) so you don't get confused. Your Air temp table and accel tables will most likely need adjustment later on.

any help you could provide would be awesome![/QUOTE]

sweeley

[QUOTE=arghx;10140903]Is your wideband connected to the DL and reading accurately from the software?

no its off. i need to set it up still. but it does work with the dl. i have been watching the gauge. probbably sketchy. i will set it up and start logging with it. i will update when i get some logs with it.

Your injector settings are way off. You need to adjust the secondary lag and the transition settings. This post partly covers it. https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...4&postcount=11

thats great info. im still not sure how to adjust lag. would it be in the injsc lag vs batt? also would i raise the number or lower it? i get a nasty hesitation when they come on.

What is your fuel pressure with the vacuum line disconnected? Another way to check it is to put the key in the run position (engine off) then jumper the GND and F/P terminals in the diagnostic box. Common numbers are 38psi (which is right around stock), 40psi, and then on a lot of other cars people run 43.5psi (which is exactly 3 bar). I run 43.5 with 720 primary and 1680 secondaries.

im @ 40psi base pressure. its an aeromotive 1:1
do you think i should raise it to 43.5?


That's a solid ballpark range, but it depends on the setup and it depends at what rpm and boost you are talking about. There are two threads in the single turbo archive which discuss timing. They're old now but they give you some exposure to it. To understand timing you have to look at a bunch of maps before it starts to click.

ill try to find it

The knock reading can be hard to interpret, and every engine is a little different. But most people would agree that if you are seeing over 100 for knock then it's highly likely you are in fact detonating. And with the map you are using (the one you posted above) it isn't surprising.

the crazy thing is thats cruising when they are high. in boost it drops to the 30-40 range.

I'm not sure what you did versus what they did, but the map you posted is very similar to the default PFC map that is preloaded in the computer. There is slightly more fuel over 4000rpm in some areas, but it is not set up for a single turbo. The timing is the Apex'i default values. On a car with stock ports and stock turbos the leading timing is ok but the trailing is borderline at best. With the additional flow of the single turbo and street port the timing is too aggressive for normal 91 or 93 octane.

i really havent done much. i changed PIM scale in settings 3 to 6300 for the 3 bar (chris @ banzai gave me this info). changed the secendary inj size to 1680.

Your settings 4 IGN vs water temp tables are overkill. Your fan trigger temps are still at the default values... I would set all three values the same, anywhere from 87 - 95 degrees depending on your preference. You have the INJ adjust maps in settings 3. Most people don't use those unless it's a quick and dirty change in the Commander or something. You're better off editing the INJ or basemap (i use the base x INJ view) so you don't get confused. Your Air temp table and accel tables will most likely need adjustment later on.

ok i guess i will back the off a bit. i dont use the pfc to controll fans, i run the fans constant with two relays. low speed on with ignition and high speed with a/c on. temps stay in the 80's. i havent messed with the inj adjust in settings 3. should i set them all at 100.0 and start from scratch on the base map?

would you have any example inj maps i could look at that are for a single turbo set up in the base x inj view?

thank you for the info!

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Matt,

You need to be very careful. I forwarned you about that base map when you told me where you bought the PFC from. The map you have is basically the default, very bad for your single turbo car. The last thing you want to do is blow up that new engine we built for you.

Chris

sweeley

i set up the Lc-1 with the datalogit but its not reading right. not sure but i think it may need to be set up as polynomial. i played with the timing and so far it hasnt helped. i see why people just take it to a tuner. but i will figure this out in time. turborx7.com has some good info. there are settings in the DL that i dont understand. thats more of what i need to learn about. im going to register the DL and check out the e group. see what i can find out there

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Did you look at the "single turbo PFC tuning" document in the sticky here? Did you hear back from Chuck Westbrook?

The official FC-Datalogit group is kind of a dead end. It's not maintained well and it may take you a long time to hear anything from them. The Chuck Westbrook group is more active.

As for the LC1... ou need to make sure your auxiliary input setup in the Datalogit matches the output voltage range in the LC1. The grounding can also affect it. Here is how I did mine: https://www.rx7club.com/power-fc-forum-47/my-power-fc-lc-1-xd-16-datalogit-wiring-diagram-707298/ . It's kind of hardcore, but my DL and XD-16 display read pretty close.

sweeley

ya just started reading it.
ya the input is set up the same as the log works range for the lc1. i actually reads lower as the xd16 leans out
maybe the ground is the problem.
i played a lot tonight and got the maps better.
started from scratch on the ignition maps. knock is under 100 now, except in the 3200-3600rpm range @ 6000-8000 map reading. pulled a lot of timing out and added fuel and still knock is around 100-130 range. in boost the knock is around 50. i will post the maps that im running now. they are a little ruff, havent smoothed them out yet.
i was wondering what ignition split is acceptable? i set mine around 7 deg.

sweeley

let me know what you think

siguy2k

iTrader: (3)

7 split is to low. I wouldnt go below 12 under boost. Also i would try and make your timing maps smoother. They are jumping around under boost which is no good. Try and smooth them out so they flow nicely. Think of it as a "curve". You want it to be nice and smooth.

sweeley

making great progress with tuning. thanks for all of your help. running 15psi with low knock count and great a/f's. blowing the tires off through second gear. having a blast! tuning is a ton of fun.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

post your current timing maps

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

Why is not this in the PFC specific forum?

sweeley

this is the current map im running in the car. the trailing is just set at 15deg of split for now. havent been on the dyno yet so i havent bumped it up. my knock count in boost is in the mid 50 to mid 60 range.

sweeley

i figured if i posted this thread in the single turbo forum i would get more answers from single turbo DL users. O well, worked out so far i guess

arghx

iTrader: (3)

This is a good safe starting point but you may find it beneficial to advance the timing at lower boost at least.

sweeley

i was wondering if its common to have higher knock levels in vacume. its like a noisey spot between 2500 and 3500 rpms. doesnt seem to change much with timing adjustments. its a brand new knock sensor from mazda. in that range it jumps from 80 to 160 somewhat randomly. averages around 110. maybe crappy fuel? usally get 93 octane. sometimes 92.

bumped the timing up a couple degrees in low boost. havent driven it yet though.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

if the knock is reading that high at a particular rpm in vaucum it's most likely something else on the car causing vibration