nitrious spool up assist?
12-03-07, 01:12 PM
#6
There really isn't that much info out there about nitrous on rotaries, especially turbo rotaries. The guys that do run it are fairly tight lipped about it, probably because of the competition aspect.
Steve Kan would probably be a good person to ask. I think he used to run it on his car as a spool up assist, and i'm sure he has tuned a few nitrous rotaries.
12-03-07, 02:09 PM
#7
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Steve is almost never around the shop so it's hard to get a hold of him, he has a job other than Gotham. But what im think about is doing a half-bridge port and a large single turbo (havent decided size yet but im going for 600rwhp) and just using the nitrious to spool the turbo faster just as an extra little advantage. I'm thinking of building a supra killer (FD that weighs around 2300ish and makes 600rwhp) should be able to take 800-900rwhp supras
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12-03-07, 02:36 PM
#9
Your choice, wet or dry (dry has better disstribution). Launch the car and feed in the nitrous, use a pressure switch, when you reach your desired boost target nitrous shuts off. I don't get what exactly is your question? Using nitrous IN YOUR ENGINE builds power, which builds exhaust volume, which spools your turbo faster. Thats what "nitrous spool up assist" normally means. The car leaves the line on NO2 till it can generate enough exhaust volume to spool up a large and what normally would be a laggy turbo. Now if someones gotten creative and is pumping it in there exhaust manifold, all I see happening is BOOM and or MELT DOWN due to the enormous EGT's. Using it to blow in your compressor wheel isn't going to effectively spin it up any faster from blowing into/across/on it either. Only from it getting into your engine with added fuel will spool it up quicker. I'd be really interested to see if there is any unusual and effective ways other then just plain old letting your engine injest it.
~Mike.............
~Mike.............
12-03-07, 03:39 PM
#10
Senior Member
silly question...
but if you sprayed a wet shot into the turbo manifold would it drastically raise EGT's like you said with the NO2 offsetting it?? even with the extra fuel it seems it would stay stable.
no idea how effective that would be at spooling, my guess would be very effective as it would work just like anti-lag but maybe keep EGT's in check with the NO2??? vs. the super high anti-lag EGT's
but if you sprayed a wet shot into the turbo manifold would it drastically raise EGT's like you said with the NO2 offsetting it?? even with the extra fuel it seems it would stay stable.
no idea how effective that would be at spooling, my guess would be very effective as it would work just like anti-lag but maybe keep EGT's in check with the NO2??? vs. the super high anti-lag EGT's
12-03-07, 03:47 PM
#11
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Im doing the same exact thing. I bought the Zex kit and highly recommend it. It has built in safety options of making sure your fuel pressure and bottle temp are correct for every use. If they're not correct, everything is reduced to compensate for your lack of pressure or temp. Also they have an option so your N20 cuts off at a certain boost, ie...to help you spool then turn off. Hope this helps.
The Zex kit you want is the P/N 82218. Its a wet system that incorporates an adjustable boost dependent elecronic switch. The system includes a Nitrous mgmt. unit, wet nozzle, a boost dependent switch and all plumbing/electrical connections needed. You can set the switch between 2 and 24psi.
The Zex kit you want is the P/N 82218. Its a wet system that incorporates an adjustable boost dependent elecronic switch. The system includes a Nitrous mgmt. unit, wet nozzle, a boost dependent switch and all plumbing/electrical connections needed. You can set the switch between 2 and 24psi.
12-03-07, 03:47 PM
#12
silly question...
but if you sprayed a wet shot into the turbo manifold would it drastically raise EGT's like you said with the NO2 offsetting it?? even with the extra fuel it seems it would stay stable.
no idea how effective that would be at spooling, my guess would be very effective as it would work just like anti-lag but maybe keep EGT's in check with the NO2??? vs. the super high anti-lag EGT's
but if you sprayed a wet shot into the turbo manifold would it drastically raise EGT's like you said with the NO2 offsetting it?? even with the extra fuel it seems it would stay stable.
no idea how effective that would be at spooling, my guess would be very effective as it would work just like anti-lag but maybe keep EGT's in check with the NO2??? vs. the super high anti-lag EGT's
EGT's would stil be massive in that scenario..........you're still causing a combustion event in the manifold whether its caused by nitrous and fuel, or fuel and chamber pressure - its still FIRE!!
12-03-07, 03:55 PM
#13
I honestly don't know. I havent tried it. But I'm still thinking your EGT's would be WAY up their as you've moved combustion from your internal engine were its allowed to expand (down stroke of a piston or expanding of the rotor chamber) and have some heat taken out through oil and water exchangers and thus cool (reletively speaking). In the manifold, its simply a explosion/constant torch/fire contained in the runners and held back from blowing out the exhaust by the turbo. You'd have to have some really trick nozzles too, as the standard nitrous nozzles are typically aluminum. Aluminum would'nt last in a turbo manifold envirnment. On a high over-lap engine, man this just sounds scarey. Hopefully someone with experiance with weird / experimental experiance will chime in. But like I said before, when nitrous is used to help a turbo car spool up, its simply run through the engine just like it was a n/a engine to generate power/exhaust volume to get the turbo spooling up then the nitrous is shut off after that.
~Mike............
~Mike............
Last edited by RacerXtreme7; 12-03-07 at 04:00 PM.
12-03-07, 03:59 PM
#15
Senior Member
I know...... i should reword it
With antilag you are supporting combustion in the manifold because you are retarding timming and dumping alot more fuel = Super high EGTS
vs
With a wet shot right into the manifold the fuel would act just like antilag and skyrocket the EGTs, but wouldn't the NO2 cool this to a reasonable level?
With antilag you are supporting combustion in the manifold because you are retarding timming and dumping alot more fuel = Super high EGTS
vs
With a wet shot right into the manifold the fuel would act just like antilag and skyrocket the EGTs, but wouldn't the NO2 cool this to a reasonable level?
12-03-07, 04:04 PM
#16
Senior Member
I have used antilag on my car alot with the E8 and I could build as much boost as i wanted very rapidly, and it isnt violent like the 2 step...........but my turbine got it up the ***, since i never had an egt gauge
To me when you engage antilag (the way i had it setup) the car acts like it just got loaded on the dyno and the turbo instantly starts singing even though revs didnt increase
12-03-07, 04:04 PM
#17
As a speculation (i've never tried it so who knows) I would still say the EGT's would be BIG. The nitrous wouldn't be providing any cooling effect, it would actually be making it hotter. More oxygen = hotter temps (ie. a lean condition.....or think oxy/aceteylne torch) and thats all Nitrous is essentially (with regards to its purpose in combustion)...............oxygen.
12-03-07, 04:11 PM
#18
Senior Member
Yes that is a very good point....
I must be thinking diesel too much because in that case NO2 cools EGTs...... and it is still supporting combustion....
but maybe in a diesel application it is just supporting a cleaner more efficient burn because no more fuel is being induced???
I must be thinking diesel too much because in that case NO2 cools EGTs...... and it is still supporting combustion....
but maybe in a diesel application it is just supporting a cleaner more efficient burn because no more fuel is being induced???
12-03-07, 04:25 PM
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I'd rather buy a new turbo than go through the hassle of rebuilding a motor.
That's if all you're worried about is launching the car.
What turbo are you running and why do you "think" you need help spooling it?
That's if all you're worried about is launching the car.
What turbo are you running and why do you "think" you need help spooling it?
12-03-07, 04:42 PM
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Steve is almost never around the shop so it's hard to get a hold of him, he has a job other than Gotham. But what im think about is doing a half-bridge port and a large single turbo (havent decided size yet but im going for 600rwhp) and just using the nitrious to spool the turbo faster just as an extra little advantage. I'm thinking of building a supra killer (FD that weighs around 2300ish and makes 600rwhp) should be able to take 800-900rwhp supras
12-03-07, 06:20 PM
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well the idea was to reduce lag and to make full boost early like at 4000rpm if possible but would it be better to run a GT45R at low boost or a T78 at higher boost?
12-03-07, 06:21 PM
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and im NOT going to run nitrious through the engine
maybe the turbine housing were theirs no combustion just make the turbine spin faster thus increasing spool
maybe the turbine housing were theirs no combustion just make the turbine spin faster thus increasing spool