Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

Currently making 525RWHP on the setup pictured below:

67mm T04R, Streetport RA Seals, 6puck, Blitz FMIC, 700CC AI, 1600CC Secondaries, Walbro 400 @20-24psi on 93 Octane.


Why do I want ~700hp? Well, simply put, I need to keep up with all the guys around here on the highway. RB26 240's, LSX S2k's, etc.... lots of fast cars in my area. 525 is very quick, but its not enough anymore

I'm not interested in answers, "if you want an interstate car buy a supra".

I'm sticking strictly to doritos.


I have approx $12k to spend, and ability to tig/mig/fab involving 20b transplant. I'm trying to justify upgrading my current setup and pushing the 13b to the limit, or going with a stock port unopened 20b that I've found w/ documented 15k miles.


Keep Current Setup:
-Upgrade to a hybrid BWS475 (T4) or the like
-Upgrade to Dual Walbro 400's, 2000cc/1000cc ID and E85
-Upgrade to Twin Plate Clutch
*figure out what to do about intake manifold restriction :/ not sure where to go with this
-Stud the Block with OEM sized Studs
-Some sort of upgraded ingnition, likely the AEM Smart Coils if I stay inductive

^I'm thinking this should get me to 650-700hp at high boost. But the motor will be so high strung. However, parts to rebuild 13b = way cheaper then a 20b.




Second Option:
-Install a subframe kit/steering rack/20b B-series low milage/microtech package which I've found for a steal
-weld up an exhaust manifold, install S475/S480
-Twin Plate
-Dual Walbro's/ID's
-Stud the block without opening (to minimize potential iron flex/cracking)
-E85

Priced Out, either setup should be doable for under $12,000. 20b route might initially exceed the price point, however I should easily be able to resell my current setup and recoup a healthy amount of cash. This setup runs flawlessly and I have provided dyno sheets/documentation.


To sum it up, which setup is going to be most reliable to yeild a clean 650-700hp? My only hesitation to the 20b would be that I do not want to spend 3-4k rebuilding a block with only 15k miles. However, it may be that the stock exhaust ports will cause EGT/Airflow Issues trying to achieve my goal.


Thank you guys for the advice/input. This forum has consistently been the goldmine of information throughout my 10 years of rotary addiction.

Neutron

iTrader: (10)

Well as far as the turbo goes you can do a EFR 9180 and nice Turblown manifold if you decide to keep the 2 rotor. This should get you to 700whp and improve your midrange power and torque from what you currently have.

FührerTüner

iTrader: (5)

Trick question? Go 20b

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

Hahaha!

I'm mostly inclined to do so, however I've never owned one, and this block is stock/not a rebuild w bullet proof seals like my 2 rotor.

I'm trying to get down to what block will yield 700hp most reliably in stock form.

On paper it seems 20b is always best option for higher hp, except I hear all these horror stories about cracked irons over 600hp on early models like a, d series.

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

Those efr units are badass. Wont I be restricted by the stock intake manifold from producing over 600hp?

unwritten-dinasty

That's what i have heard, REW intake mani becomes a restricton after 600whp. Might consider gettin an RE intake or go Projay...

Neutron

iTrader: (10)

I'm honestly not sure. I'm using a Rotary Works throttle body with a Xcessive lower intake manifold and have not had a issue yet at a hair over 600WHP. I know I've seen other builds with the same set up over 700whp.

BlueMx5

iTrader: (4)

not at all i made 710 whp @40lbs on a s372 on a stock intake and throttle body there are many others who have made 600+ on a stock intake manifold with only 4 injectors.
put a real S400 frame on it not the t4 hybrid and let it breathe or try out one of those efr units, they look badass
Im happy with the new s483 dual batmowheel that i purchased, she starts building boost at 1800RPM no joke but that could also be from the semi pp and the Pro-Jay Typhoon intake as well. I will be hitting the dyno in two weeks ill let you know what it makes on pump gas, shooting for 600+

JZG

Stay 13B, it's far cheaper and fine for your application.

An EFR won't go 700hp, BW S475 is your best option, we did 750rwhp with one before switching to an 80mm. The S475 was actually really responsive on the street, better than I thought it would be. It's also dirt cheap to buy.
If we could do 750rwhp with a TII engine with stock intake/throttle body then you'll do 700hp with the FD setup no problem. The FD t/body is larger than TII anyway. We even made 700hp with 2.5in intercooler piping, changing to 3in made no difference on the dyno, not at that power level anyway.

Here's our specs that I copied off our FB page, they may be of some use to you:
-Series 5 13B turbo engine - street ported, side clearanced rotors, balanced, 4x extra dowels, RA 2mm apex seals. Built almost entirely from used parts (some seals were new).
-Series 5 intake manifolds and throttle body - stock
-Borgwarner 400SX turbo 80mm
-50mm external wastegate
-3.5in exhaust system with straight thru muffler
-4x 1680cc injectors
-2x Bosch 044 fuel pumps - submerged in factory tank
-Sard fuel regulator
-Link G4RX ecu
-Pre-turbo water injection
-4x smart coils
-Bar and plate intercooler with 3in piping
-Griffin alloy radiator and stock S4 waterpump
-Quarter Master clutch and chrome moly flywheel
-Steel bell housing
-Tremec TKO500 dog ringed 5 speed transmission
-Ford 9in diff 31 spline
-Leaf spring rear end with Caltrac bars
-Series 5 front brakes, Nissan Bluebird rear brakes
-850rwhp at 40psi 98 octane pump petrol (93 octane USA)
-8.84 @ 162.5mph 26x8.5 slick, full street trim
-Weight - 2380lb with driver.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

20B sounds awesome, however, if you might not have the funds later on down the road for a thick plate or e shaft, then I would steer away from the 20B idea.

With that much money, I would build a second 13B REW, and always have a backup engine (or parts to build one in a couple o hours). I would try to keep changes at a minimal, for example, would you really need a new turbo manifold? If so because of a t6 frame turbo, how about modifying your current one? Do you really need a twin disk clutch? etc

I guess my lack of budget is showing lol

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for sharing. Great info. I don't know how these rumors spread that you can't do over 600hp on stock uim!

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

You sir have brass nuts. That's serious boost/power. Where can I see videos/pics?

Amazing, 850rwhp!! Massive turbo. Can't believe a 13b will spool up that 80mm. Exciting news, thanks for the info.

You must live in new Zealand or PR with that power level no hahaha?

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

All of your suggestion are without a doubt the most reasonable and rational ideas. However, I think my dorito addiction will never be reasonably contained or rationally supported lol.

My manifold is the hks donkey turd brick. Def won't work w anything larger :/

I'm using a 6 puck w hd plate, works great, but I'm not sure that it will hold 600ft/lbs? What other option is there for higher torque besides multiplate?

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

I like your insanity. That pro-j mani looks great. Super $$$

Plz keep posted on results w the batmowheel. Are you running the race cover?

sngl13b

iTrader: (16)

Stay 13b,cheaper. Semi peripheral, pro-jay intake, s4 t2 rotors, balance/clearance rotating assembly(Chipsmotorsprts), bw s475/480 and you'll get there. A friend of mine has similar setup on a Datsun with a t2 block semi peripheral not 100%on what bw I think 480 @27 psi made 700whp(694).good luck

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

I definitely want to agree. However, how long do these 13b's last at 700rwhp on 27psi vs a 20b running the same at 17psi? This is my primary concern. Longevity and stress.

But, like you said, 13b is much cheaper. In the end, rebuilding a 13b every few years may still outweight the cost of a well built 700hp 20b.

unwritten-dinasty

True, but i think adding maybe 300cc more (1,000cc total) of AI will help out with longevity and stress.

JZG

New Zealand



Your single plate clutch may hold if the cover has enough clamp pressure. If it doesn't the Quartermaster 7.25in twin plate Rally clutches work great. They are streetable and can be modulated (unlike the road race version). They are also well priced.

BezRx7

JZG thanks for sharing the vids and wish I could come for a ride in that wagon haha

drftinmx6

iTrader: (6)

go semi PP, run either a projay intake or a 13B-RE intake and upgrade to a bigger turbo , more injectors, more pump, and get wilbert performance to tune it

Monsterbox

iTrader: (6)

This is truly heroic !

Why don't you just go ahead and move up to the bw s500sx and scoop up that 1, 000hp

But seriously, in a 2400lb car that's got to be stunning acceleration. Very impressive. And doing it on pump and water.

I'm very curious as to how your run the water setup and what your timing is like@ 40psi no-mans-land

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

LOL, asked him how much RWHP and quarter mile times they did on a 60-1 turbo

This guys are crazy and talented

JZG

Pre-turbo water/methanol injection. It's a kit I put together based on what I'd researched. It's very similar to the all the boost operated pre-turbo kits available.
40psi = 5 deg at peak torque, increasing to 10.5 deg at 9000rpm. These timing numbers are most likely specific to this particular setup, they may not work in anyone elses setup. That, and I don't care about the engine. It probably should have died long ago but for some reason it won't. Therefore I'm not worried about running too much timing.

jetlude

iTrader: (9)

drftinmx6

iTrader: (6)

How much water/meth do you actually inject? and what ratio of water/meth do you inject?