ludeowner

Hi everybody,

I was wondering If I could get you opinions on My proposed FD setup. I dont own an FD yet but when I buy one this is what I will get, in the order that I'll buy them.

My goal is 400 WHP @ 12-15 PSI on pump gas (91-92), and on the stock rear-end/axles. This car will also be daily driven.


-Kakimoto Hiper N1 Exhaust
-Fluidyne radiator
-Pettit Aluminum AST
-Clutch, recommendations??? need one good for at least 400-450 WHP
-HKS EVC 4
-Apexi PowerFC + Commander + datalogit
-Stock 550 primaries, stock secondaries bored to 1300cc
-Stock fuel rail
-NipponDenso competition fuel pump
-SX FPR
-Autometer Dual Pod, Autometer Boost and Fuel Pressure Guage.
-Autometer Steering Column Pod, Autometer Water Temp guage
-HKS twin power ignition
-Plugs and Wires?, recommendations???
-XS T04S kit @ 15 PSI
-Greddy 2-row intercooler


There! thats my list. I pretty much just went into the RX7 store and started picking stuff. If there are any inexpensive alternatives available I would like to know about it. Will the HKS kit need anything extra that is not listed?

Thanks to anyone that can offer any input.

ludeowner

I just read that you dont need an EBC if you have the Apexi Power FC+commander. so that's getting taken off my list, WOOHOO! I just saved myself $465 on my proposed setup.

Jedon

Clutch: I have the ACT street/strip an dlike it, double check to make sure it can handle that amount of power though.
Injectors: Best way to go if you are using the powerFC is to get your stock ones bored out keeping the same 550/850 ratio, 850/1300.
Intercooler: Front mount is better for drag racing, stock mount is better for road racing (not all agree on this though). Front mount usually requires some modification of the bumber to get it to fit and the stock mount can only be so big unless you get a smaller battery or relocate it to the cabin.
Ignition: HKS TwinPower plugs right in so is easiest, other people like the MSD or Crane products. Others say the stock FD setup is fine.
-Jedon

rmani

for single turbos don't a lot of people prefer the haltech setup vs the power fc?

Jedon

Yes they do, or a TECII or III or the new AEM unit, or a Motec. So many choices.

ludeowner

which one is easier to install, easier to use, and which one is more user friendly?

the reason I chose the Apexi powerFC+commander, is cause there was a manual on here already. and it seemed like a lot of people were using it.

Jedon

well the PowerFC is easiest to install, you just plug it in and go. The problem is tuning via the handheld "commander" can be tedious. Also, the values shown are offsets from a basemap instead of true values. If you are near LA you can go to XS Engineering who have the software to adjust the basemaps (PowerExel), or there is the new addon unit that allows you to hook up a laptop to it.
The Haltech comes with a "flying harness" that you need to splice into the engine harness, although I have heard that K2RD has a new FD harness for it that makes it as easy to intall as the PFC. To tune the Haltech you need a laptop to hook up to it.
I have heard good things about the Motec but it is pretty expensive compared to the others.
The TecII has less extras but has coils built in so has very accurate timing. Anyway, go to the ECU forum and read up....

ludeowner

Cool!, Thanks for all the info Jedon.

Even tough the PowerFC sounds like a pain to tune with I may get it anyways. As long as it does what it is supposed to do I'll be happy. The one thing I am looking for is a "plug-n-play" type setup that wont require a lot of splicing and cutting of the ECU wires.

I also have a silly question for you, since you live in CA. I'm certain that my "proposed setup" wont come close to passing the smog tests. But would it be possible to go to the state Ref and turn down the boost to say 10 PSI and pass the sniff test?

Or if that doesn't work I suppose I could just take the single turbo setup off and re-install the stock setup to pass the smog tests. Thats one of the main reasons I want most of the Electronics to be "plug-n-play" so that it'll be easier to take off.

And the last thing since no one addressed my concerns about keeping the rear end stock, I'm also guessing I'll be ok. I don't want to upgrade the rear axles or go to a KAAZ LSD right away, but eventually it's one of the things I'll upgrade.

Well I'm gonna hang aroud the ECU forums and try to see what I can learn.

Thanks again

PaulC

Im really interested in this question as well since I'll be building up a car hopefully to have to run to sevenstock 2003

I was also thinking about a 4" downpipe and race pipe out to a dual N1 catback.

PaulC

no more suggestions, replies, or even a little jerking of our chains to rile us up?????

Jedon

You won't need to upgrade your rear end unles you run drag slicks.
I'm going to put my car together stock, pass smog, and then put all the single turbo stuff on. In two years I guess I will either put it all back to stock or find someone who can convert money into lower emissions

Ryde _Or_Die

Or you could come register your car in FL where we have no emissions J/k, but you could go to another state or something to register your car. My dad used to go out of county before our county dropped the emissions testing.

PaulC

I just registar my cars out at my Dad's place in the country

maxcooper

There are many clutches that will work. Get a light flywheel when you do the clutch.

You'll still need a boost controller. The PowerFC controls the stock turbo boost, but it won't control a single with the Boost Control Kit (no longer available, AFAIK). I added an AVC-R to my car and I like it very much. The Profec B is also popular.

The FC-datalogit is a device that lets you access all the seetings of the PowerFC and do datalogging. I just got mine and I love it. If you can't get to XS for tuning (or even if you can!) get one of these to go with your PowerFC.

Keep the stock 550 primaries and get your secondaries bored to 1300 cc/min by RC Engineering. These will fit in the stock fuel rail and all you to keep the ACV for emissions purposes (less stuff to switch back).

I've got an HKS TwinPower ignition on my car. It was very, very easy to install and boosts both leading and trailing ignition. I don't know how much it helps, so from a budget standpoint, you might try running the stock ignition first and only upgrade if you get break-up at high RPM or simply decide that you want to try it later.

The HKS T04E can make 400RWHP @ 15 psi with a ported motor and careful tuning, but chances are that you won't hit that number without all of your stars being in alignment (lots of careful prep and tuning). It might be too small for your power goals, but it is a nice setup so you might prefer to adjust your expectations rather than seek a different turbo.

If you aren't going to road race, get an FMIC (A'PEXi, GReddy, Blitz, HKS). You'll get better intake cooling on the street and strip, and also on the dyno. But, your car will overheat with a FMIC at the track, so if you plan to road race get a SMIC (M2, Greddy).

-Max

ludeowner

Altough I'm in the military and will soon be living in CA (hopefully), FL is my home of record. So I thought about getting my car registered there in the past for that exact reason.

ludeowner

Well it looks like I'll go ahead and add the Apexi AVCR back on the list. And also add the HKS ignition on ther e as well, a couple of oter people have given positive opinions on it as well.

And about the Turbo kit itself, I'm now considering going up to either the XS T04S and the HKS, and between their T04R and the T51R.

what are your opinions about both kit qualities? I obviously like the price of the XS T04S, but HKS usually puts out quality kits.

EDIT: I just changed some stuff on my original list, but I had a question for MAX, since you suggested I raise my goals (and I am) would your previous suggestion on the injectors still be ok? (stock pri., bored 1300cc sec.)? also what should I do for plugs and wires?

maxcooper

I was really saying that the T04E is a good choice, but that it might not make the peak HP you were originally shooting for. I was thinking that you might want to lower your power expectations a bit, and still get the T04E. But the T04S is a good choice, too, and should meet your original power expectations much more easily.

The 550/1300 setup is pretty safe up to 400 RWHP, but if you think you might want to go higher, 850/1300 or 550/1600 setups are worth looking into. I've got a web page that helps you calculate all this stuff. It's recommendations are intentionally on the conservative side, but I don't have any fudge factors figured in, just some comments and recommended choices for the options that keep you on the safe side of things:
http://www.maxcooper.com/rx7/how-to/...tem/calcs.html

It might be cheaper to get 550/1300 and run slightly higher fuel pressure than to get even larger injectors. This is still a safe and very reasonable approach, IMHO. And it will save you a few bucks. Get the core stuff right without breaking the bank and then spend more where you need it. You'll likely have lots of little incidental items that pile up to a good chunk of change in your journey to single-turbo-dom, so it makes sense to keep the costs down where it is reasonable to do so.

-Max

ludeowner

THanks for all the info Max, but something else I am worried about now, is that since I am considering the T04S I am starting to think about the engine and rear end and whether or not they need to be built.

I am used to thinking in terms of turbo'ing a Honda, either you dont build it (9 PSI or less), or you do (10 PSI over), so buildng a rotary is new to me. would I need to build the motor any for 400-475 PSI? or at what point will I need to start building the motor? same thing for the the rear end.

TIA

milkman2k52

You shouldnt need to build the motor for 400-475 *HP* but if you are planning on track racing, I'd personally say that the T51r is a bit large/laggy. If you are looking for those numbers, I heard that the T-78 has met with some success on the track.

ludeowner

Hey maxcooper,

I had another question about the injectors, I used your website to see what WHP the 1300's would be good for.

for a maximum recommended duty cycle of 80%, I figured the fuel system pressure would have to be at around 60 PSI. That would be good for 450 WHP, and since my goal IS 450 WHP, I figure I would be around 65 PSI to give me a safety margin. 65 PSI should be good for 470 WHP.

what are your opinions on running high fuel pressure on rotaries? personally I dont like the idea of running high fuel pressure if I dont have too, or if it could lead to damage/failure.

also whats the deal with 1600 injectors and the PFC anyways? I've read bits and pieces in the PFC forum about 1600 and the PFC problem but the details aer kinda hazy.

TIA

ludeowner

Hi everybody,

I just thought I'd bring this thread back, cause there are some new questions hat I wanted to ask.

I want to start out doin BPU's, but I dont want to get an upgrade that will later be useless with the single kit. So I was thinking for starters I would bet the following done before taking te big step and getting the big single installed.

BTW, this would be the order that I would be getting them.

1) reliability mods
2) Kakimoto Hiper N1 Exhaust
3) Fluidyne radiator
4) Pettit Aluminum AST
5) Apexi PFC+ datalogit
6) Pods and Guages
7) Clutch and *maybe* lightweight flywheel
8) single turbo, everything else

# 8 is something that I'd have to save up for. but everything else is stuff I'd get over about 3-4 months. Is there anything in the XS T04S kit that is not included but something I'll need? example: a downpipe or midpipe?

TIA

jspecracer7

Big difference between T04R and T51R

ludeowner

Oh, I forgot to mention I was lowering my HP goals. first I was shooting for a 400 WHP setup, then I wanted a 450-475 WHP setup. But then I just wanted to stay within the limits of the 550/1300 (bored) injector setup I had, which means I am back to my 400 WHP goal/setup which is the XS T04S (for now anyways).

I think the factor that'll have the most impact for what setup I will decide to run will be the available Octane gas in my area, NorCal (91-92 octane).

jspecracer7

stock axles are fine, but a stock Diff isn't. I've seen 400 hp blow a stock diff. Go ahead and get a diff and the mazdaspeed ppf while you're at it. You'll be happy with that setup.

Clutch...A good clutch that is VERY streetable and will hold your hp goals is the os giken twin plate...but be warned...it's PRICEY!!!

ludeowner

what would you recommend for a replacement to the stock diff? KAAZ?

PPF thats the power plant frame right? thanks, I think I'll be getting those too.