Need input on fast spooling turbo
03-04-07, 05:39 PM
#27
conventional variable vane material won't last long in the typical exhaust temp's of a rotary. it's been used for YEARS in diesel trucks and porsche finally got it to work on their 911's a year ago after spending who knows how much in the r&d. getting it to work on a rotary would be even more expensive.
03-04-07, 05:46 PM
#28
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I think to market something like this your prices would have to be inline with what is available on the market today, so comparable to high end ball bearing turbos.
Can you give us a more specific explanation of what this invention will do? For instance, how will it affect different areas of the power band, compared to a BB turbo? How will highway cruising be affected by this? Are there dyno charts or some more info on the H-D motorcycles they were developed on?
I understand you just want to gauge interest, but if nobody believes you then that's a waste of your time as well.
Can you give us a more specific explanation of what this invention will do? For instance, how will it affect different areas of the power band, compared to a BB turbo? How will highway cruising be affected by this? Are there dyno charts or some more info on the H-D motorcycles they were developed on?
I understand you just want to gauge interest, but if nobody believes you then that's a waste of your time as well.
03-04-07, 05:50 PM
#29
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It's going to be awhile for the testing to get the result. I hope it works like it did on a Harley,Porshe,hummer,diesel dodge truck.Maybe rx7,supra,rb25
03-04-07, 05:52 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by nik
I think to market something like this your prices would have to be inline with what is available on the market today, so comparable to high end ball bearing turbos.
Can you give us a more specific explanation of what this invention will do? For instance, how will it affect different areas of the power band, compared to a BB turbo? How will highway cruising be affected by this? Are there dyno charts or some more info on the H-D motorcycles they were developed on?
I understand you just want to gauge interest, but if nobody believes you then that's a waste of your time as well.
Can you give us a more specific explanation of what this invention will do? For instance, how will it affect different areas of the power band, compared to a BB turbo? How will highway cruising be affected by this? Are there dyno charts or some more info on the H-D motorcycles they were developed on?
I understand you just want to gauge interest, but if nobody believes you then that's a waste of your time as well.
The best person to talk to about this is Coxxoc on this forum cause he did some test and dyno run with the Harley. I'm just testing it on my FD and hopefully supra.
03-04-07, 07:24 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by jamespond24
lol remember when talking about scam I'm not from St.Louis
Originally Posted by jamespond24
I have more money than your whole family combine and only 31 years old.
Originally Posted by coxxoc
For the person with the NASA comment. This turbo is currently being evaluated by the US Army for use on their vehicles.
Originally Posted by coxxoc
We just need to know market interest so that we can properly invest in this project.
Ref: See forum threads for the Camden supercharger, Tesla bladeless disk turbine, RPI stratified charge engines, and just about every other major technical project.
Originally Posted by papiogxl
This is not really new technology, if its what I think it is. It has been in use for quite some time, on diesels and porsche's. There have also been numerous threads on variable geometry turbos.
03-04-07, 07:47 PM
#32
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[/QUOTE]Oh, I can already tell you how the gauging of interest will go on this forum. You will have all kinds of broke people with no engineering background raving about this new and wonderous product. [/QUOTE]
typical of any forum, but this one is especially bad, most of the members can not even afford a journal bearing turbo let alone the rest of the equipment to install it so on the whole gauging interest part of this thread, I can tell you you will recieve about 30 pm's with the question, can you hold it till next payday for me, you then get about 40 pm's from other forum members asking you the specs that you already listed in the advertisement, and in the end you might get one person that is serious
[/QUOTE]VATN/VNT, VIGV/VVT, and VGT/VTG all have lag if exhaust driven. The only way to eliminate lag is to mechanically or hydraulically (incompressible) link the compressor to a driver.[/QUOTE]
now I have often wondered why not design a turbo that uses hydraulic oil to prespool? it seems to me that a large portion of your lag would be gone, and by sizing the oil pump against the hydraulic motor you should be able to even get boost right off of idle, similiar to a positive displacement supercharger
would you have to much pumping loss from the hydraulics themselves? it might not reclaim as much exhasut energy, and there would be parasitic losses from the hydraulic pump itself, but it seems ot me a simpler proposition than building a V.V.T. turbo that can handle the heat , or maybe I just had to much coffee this morning, and my brain is on the fritz.
kenn
edit: the reason I say simpler, is its just a reconfiguration of a known technology, not quite as hard as getting a super duper material called "unobtainium" that would have all of the tensile qualities, as well as heat resisting, as well as light blah, blah blah that would be required to make a V.V.T. work on a rotary, and yeah I thought about the whole iconel route, do not think it would work well for the V.V.T. vanes, but I could be wrong.
kenn
typical of any forum, but this one is especially bad, most of the members can not even afford a journal bearing turbo let alone the rest of the equipment to install it so on the whole gauging interest part of this thread, I can tell you you will recieve about 30 pm's with the question, can you hold it till next payday for me, you then get about 40 pm's from other forum members asking you the specs that you already listed in the advertisement, and in the end you might get one person that is serious
[/QUOTE]VATN/VNT, VIGV/VVT, and VGT/VTG all have lag if exhaust driven. The only way to eliminate lag is to mechanically or hydraulically (incompressible) link the compressor to a driver.[/QUOTE]
now I have often wondered why not design a turbo that uses hydraulic oil to prespool? it seems to me that a large portion of your lag would be gone, and by sizing the oil pump against the hydraulic motor you should be able to even get boost right off of idle, similiar to a positive displacement supercharger
would you have to much pumping loss from the hydraulics themselves? it might not reclaim as much exhasut energy, and there would be parasitic losses from the hydraulic pump itself, but it seems ot me a simpler proposition than building a V.V.T. turbo that can handle the heat , or maybe I just had to much coffee this morning, and my brain is on the fritz.
kenn
edit: the reason I say simpler, is its just a reconfiguration of a known technology, not quite as hard as getting a super duper material called "unobtainium" that would have all of the tensile qualities, as well as heat resisting, as well as light blah, blah blah that would be required to make a V.V.T. work on a rotary, and yeah I thought about the whole iconel route, do not think it would work well for the V.V.T. vanes, but I could be wrong.
kenn
Last edited by kenn_chan; 03-04-07 at 07:53 PM.
03-04-07, 07:50 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by coxxoc
Here is video proof of a vehicle that this system has been equipped on:
http://myweb.cableone.net/joshcox86/...rbocharger.mpg
This is on a Dodge ram dually. Notice the boost when it is idling. 3-4lbs sound good when your normally in vacuum? Mash it, and within a very short time it is over 30lbs of boost They feel a lot like a supercharger, but without the disadvantages.
I completely understand being weary of the promises of this turbo. I know when I was first approached, it thought it was impossible. I'm a believer now and James and I are ready to put in some time to develop the perfect setup for Rx-7's with the inventor. After Rx-7's our next stop is Supra.
For the person with the NASA comment. This turbo is currently being evaluated by the US Army for use on their vehicles. It really is amazing. I am confident this will bring a new era in turbo performance.
We just need to know market interest so that we can properly invest in this project.
http://myweb.cableone.net/joshcox86/...rbocharger.mpg
This is on a Dodge ram dually. Notice the boost when it is idling. 3-4lbs sound good when your normally in vacuum? Mash it, and within a very short time it is over 30lbs of boost They feel a lot like a supercharger, but without the disadvantages.
I completely understand being weary of the promises of this turbo. I know when I was first approached, it thought it was impossible. I'm a believer now and James and I are ready to put in some time to develop the perfect setup for Rx-7's with the inventor. After Rx-7's our next stop is Supra.
For the person with the NASA comment. This turbo is currently being evaluated by the US Army for use on their vehicles. It really is amazing. I am confident this will bring a new era in turbo performance.
We just need to know market interest so that we can properly invest in this project.
Read the vacuum in diesel engines stuff here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold_vacuum
Oh, and boosting at idle can only do great things for mileage.
03-04-07, 08:21 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by Nismo Convert86
You do realize that Diesels don't make any vacuum right? Even stock they are at about 1psi, at idle. The stock VVT turbos won't hold up to a rotary, unless you have some new fantastic materials it's not going to last long.
Read the vacuum in diesel engines stuff here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold_vacuum
Oh, and boosting at idle can only do great things for mileage.
Read the vacuum in diesel engines stuff here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold_vacuum
Oh, and boosting at idle can only do great things for mileage.
LOL, hes right ^^
03-04-07, 08:41 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by BLitzed33
LOL, hes right ^^
How about on porshe and Harley engine? They're getting the same boost at idle too. Contact coxxoc cause he's the one that's involve on the Harley.
03-04-07, 08:46 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by Nismo Convert86
You do realize that Diesels don't make any vacuum right? Even stock they are at about 1psi, at idle. The stock VVT turbos won't hold up to a rotary, unless you have some new fantastic materials it's not going to last long.
Read the vacuum in diesel engines stuff here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold_vacuum
Oh, and boosting at idle can only do great things for mileage.
Read the vacuum in diesel engines stuff here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold_vacuum
Oh, and boosting at idle can only do great things for mileage.
That's is why I'm going to see if it really works on a rotary engine, I seen it work on a harley.
03-04-07, 08:56 PM
#37
We have done it on two Harley's. They are on a Softail and a VROD. We put turbo kits together and are about to goto final production on them. Right now we are addressing the concern you speak of, reliability. The VROD is being ridden daily and will be at the track in two weeks.
I can give you dyno charts and such after that time.
For highway cruise, all vehicles with this turbo setup on run about 4 psi at a steady cruise, but reach peak boost very quickly (lagless on the bikes). The video with the dodge above has a turbo of a size similar to a gt42. The operator does not floor the truck, but rather eases into the throttle. If he floored it, it would hit the boost level faster.
We don't want to promise the world here, but it should be exciting to see what becomes of this.
Josh
I can give you dyno charts and such after that time.
For highway cruise, all vehicles with this turbo setup on run about 4 psi at a steady cruise, but reach peak boost very quickly (lagless on the bikes). The video with the dodge above has a turbo of a size similar to a gt42. The operator does not floor the truck, but rather eases into the throttle. If he floored it, it would hit the boost level faster.
We don't want to promise the world here, but it should be exciting to see what becomes of this.
Josh
03-04-07, 09:11 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by jamespond24
That's is why I'm going to see if it really works on a rotary engine, I seen it work on a harley.
When Harleys have 2000*f egt's I'll listen to you.
03-04-07, 09:16 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by coxxoc
We have done it on two Harley's. They are on a Softail and a VROD. We put turbo kits together and are about to goto final production on them. Right now we are addressing the concern you speak of, reliability. The VROD is being ridden daily and will be at the track in two weeks.
I can give you dyno charts and such after that time.
For highway cruise, all vehicles with this turbo setup on run about 4 psi at a steady cruise, but reach peak boost very quickly (lagless on the bikes). The video with the dodge above has a turbo of a size similar to a gt42. The operator does not floor the truck, but rather eases into the throttle. If he floored it, it would hit the boost level faster.
We don't want to promise the world here, but it should be exciting to see what becomes of this.
Josh
I can give you dyno charts and such after that time.
For highway cruise, all vehicles with this turbo setup on run about 4 psi at a steady cruise, but reach peak boost very quickly (lagless on the bikes). The video with the dodge above has a turbo of a size similar to a gt42. The operator does not floor the truck, but rather eases into the throttle. If he floored it, it would hit the boost level faster.
We don't want to promise the world here, but it should be exciting to see what becomes of this.
Josh
03-04-07, 09:18 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by Nismo Convert86
When Harleys have 2000*f egt's I'll listen to you.
It doesn't matter I'm going to test it out anyway. You're just jealous that the experiment turbo is going into my FD than yours.
03-04-07, 09:25 PM
#41
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I don't have an FD, and before you say blah blah blah can't afford it, I really don't care, I think before you start comparing apples to oranges here you should know they are different. Maybe a little more research is in order.... If i really want to I will go pull a turbo off a F350 in the junk yard, for like 500 bucks, and have this mystical set up.
If the harley is succesful than I think of trying it on a 2JZ, I got a donor for the supra.
03-04-07, 10:03 PM
#44
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I suspect there will be major problems with "cruising at 4 psi". Assuming you have no detonation, and can tune for the same AFR, the engine simply will make more torque than it would under vacuum. Basically, for this to work usefully, you would have to drastically change the gearing in the car(taller gears, to utilise this low end power for cruise). Essentially you would just move all the stable operation points(cruise settings) lower in the rpm band.
Since you guys aren't denying VVT style technology, i guess that means the cat's out of the bag?
Since you guys aren't denying VVT style technology, i guess that means the cat's out of the bag?
Last edited by nik; 03-04-07 at 10:08 PM.
03-04-07, 10:13 PM
#45
How about some real facts about the product? Why not just come clean with what you're doing.
From what I can gather you are modifying existing turbos and swapping out turbine housings with something you are making.
Why gather interest if absolutely nothing is revealed about this product?
-Kevin
From what I can gather you are modifying existing turbos and swapping out turbine housings with something you are making.
Why gather interest if absolutely nothing is revealed about this product?
-Kevin
03-04-07, 10:22 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by CarbonR1
How about some real facts about the product? Why not just come clean with what you're doing.
From what I can gather you are modifying existing turbos and swapping out turbine housings with something you are making.
Why gather interest if absolutely nothing is revealed about this product?
-Kevin
From what I can gather you are modifying existing turbos and swapping out turbine housings with something you are making.
Why gather interest if absolutely nothing is revealed about this product?
-Kevin
2.patent pending
3.too busy
03-04-07, 10:29 PM
#47
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I'm not here to sell the turbo(not yet) just to gather interest. This turbo is going to be test edover and over before being on the market so make it atleast 6 month or so for results.
03-04-07, 10:33 PM
#48
I'm all for innovative ideas, and good luck with it. It's definitely not easy to qualify a turbo, and I hope that the person dealing with it understands this. Hopefully he knows what goes into qualification of a shelf turbo, and can get it to work with a hot burning rotary. I am very skeptical until I see any facts, data or ideas though.
Kevin
Kevin
03-04-07, 11:21 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by CarbonR1
Who knows, some of us would probably be able to offer some useful input and advice on the product too.
This is a great idea, I need to gather everything about a rotary engine to present it to him so he could make it to our specification. All I know is that it tested on a piston and diesel engine with success. Since I'm a rotary guyI wanted to test it on a rotary before others. Any ideas would be appreciated.