I was supposed to get A GTX with Tial aluminum snail and manifold. Since the one I paid for was sold to someone else I will have to look elsewhere after three years of waiting.

I would like to actually use my NASA membership but the car has to be a daily driver, so i'm going to replace my Apexi FMIC with a HKS V-mount and retain my A/C.

Since CA only has 91 octane although I do have a water injection system with the summer unit, I don't think I will go over 1bar.

I did at one point want to do twin single GT28's with internal gates, separate manifolds and true dual exhaust. I can't fabricate myself and i'm not going through that nightmare path paying a shop again.

I'm looking at a BB T04S full bolt on kit over the T04Z as fitment and DIY bolt in may out weigh efficiency and price.

I would consider another GTX35 kit, T3 v-flange, aluminum snail and manifold but i've been out of the loop for a while and wouldn't know who to get the kit from and don't want to keep making the same mistakes over and over and over ...etc.

I am not going to change my fuel system, so a min of 400hp and max of 85% of fuel has been my goal.

Please no stupid replies ...do a search 10yr newbie.
Please don't change this to a flame or bashing thread.

 

If you're just looking for power in the 400whp range than I don't really see the need for adding that "X" to the end of your turbo. A standard GT35r should get you there with good spool time and transient response.

Using 400whp but less than 85% IDC is likely gunna limit your window for performance, unless of course you're running different injectors than listed in your sig.

 

Turblown TDX61R. I have similar power goals and have gone down this path. Am waiting on its arrival and have a bit of work to do to complete the car so it will be a while before I have my own results.

Turblown TDX61R - Turblown Engineering

Boost plot below on stock ports and E85. Cant argue with 19psi by 3400 rpm.

 

I might be selling my gt4094r. No damage just went bigger.
I made a tad over 600hp with it. I used it with the apexi fmic.

 

I want quick spool and GTX is the one Mr. Coleman recommended when he built my engine but as I said i've been out of the loop for a while and the engine's been sitting in the car for two years now. Isn't the GTX the fastest spool or is there a new kid on the block.

Fuel is the same new 850's bored out to 1350's at RC Engineering, stock 850's in the secondary, A Skyline GTR fuel pump (R34 or whatever they were before they came to the US), no FPR right now and new in box water injection kit.

fundamonkey - just remembered that 85% is the max recommended to be safe and don't want to go over that. If I had to i'd push 90%.

Wow, thanks for the Turblown link WangRacing! If they don't have a complete kit I should be able to use the HKS T04Z kit since they are both T4.

Sk8world - I'd never do a GT40 unless I did a tiny exhaust side which would be a waste. I plan to run 14lbs untill water injection then 15lbs max.

 

They definitely do a complete kit. Nice twin gate fully divided manifolds. And the turbo is GTX based. Getting some impressive results. 480 odd hp and 390odd tq at 22 psi on E85 with full boost in the 3500 ish rpm range.

 

I'm assuming you were one of the guys who emailed me this morning. Just so you know we have T4 manifolds/turbos/wgs in stock, all we have to do is build the cooling lines/downpipes/ dump tubes. It doesn't take long to get a turbo kit delivered. I could get one to your door in two weeks( assuming we don't sell out of manifolds over the weekend...)

 

You replied to my email ...your time frame is two weeks, not two years?

Just out of curiosity to get this out of my system; Could you build a dual single kit with GT28's, internal gates, Tial aluminum v-band housings and v-band aluminum manifolds (separate going to dual exhaust)?

 

I have done big twins before, and its nothing something I would ever off in a kit for several reasons. First off its has to be built on the car that is going to run the setup, as its just too tight with twice as much stuff down there. Secondly there is a massive amount of heat from twice as much hot parts. Doing twins is a waste of time unless you want a show car. A proper single turbo setup will make more power than most people can handle, spool just as fast if not faster than the stock twin, and break your drive train components every week if the boost is high enough.

 

^ My concept is different than what has been done before. Tiny BB GT28's similar to what M2 used in their modified OEM twin setup as they only need to power .65 liters, separate manifolds and down pipes to dual exhaust, internal gates for more room. Although dual 2" down pipes would be a fabrication and clearance issue.

Shipping my car and fabrication costs along with the possibility of minimal or no gains over twin scroll and divided housing single would prevent me from going forward with this but I do appreciate the reply.

On your Turblown kit:
* Would 1.0 would be correct for my medium street port and 1bar of boost?
* It shows sleeve bearing with no ball bearing option?
I have a 38mm Tial waste gate I never used. If your kits are already pre-made then fabrication costs would out weigh me selling it.

 

Never knew Ca only had 91 octane

 

The kit I built was pretty much identical, just not GT/BB.

Yes the 1.0 would be right on for your needs. BB is optional @ an additional $550. If your Tial 38mm is an MVS, then we can do it, if its an older 38mm 2 bolt it won't fit.

 

Well, i'm impressed. No one ever understood what I was talking about and only pictured Border Racing's setup.

The Tial I have is four bolt with an inconel base. I have had very bad luck with fabrication, so I think I should not deviate from your kit and just sell it.

That is a pretty good price jump for the BB version. What is the initial boost rpm difference with jernal vs ball bearing?

 

The only testing between BB and JB I have done is on the dyno in 4th gear and there was only 50 rpms... I've tuned several of these setups too, all with the same results.

 

Hi Rob,

"I am not going to change my fuel system, so a min of 400hp and max of 85% of fuel has been my goal."

1700 CC pri
2600 CC secondaries

4300 CC total gross nominal at 100% duty

4300 X .85 duty = 3655 CC

3655 X .87 (lag/slippage) = 3180 Net deliverability

3180 CC/Min is .84 gallons per minute X 6.35 pounds per gallon = 5.334 pounds per minute of net max fuel

you want to be able to tune down to 10 or 10.5 AFR..

at 10.5 AFR 5.334 pounds of fuel balances against 56 pounds of air.

56 pounds of air/810 CFM or 422 hp.

your fuel is correct for your hp and boost objectives. a number of turbos mentioned above are not.

combine your fuel system, a bit of overboost and the aforementioned turbos and you will blow your/my engine in a heartbeat.

IF you are serious about not changing fuel you should be looking for a 60 pounds compressor.

a garden variety GT35 or, a better option would be what i believe Turblown offers that joins a standard GT35 compressor wheel to a P trim (larger) back end. this is an excellent combo. it is a journal bearing which works fine in my book. the other option would be a BW turbo which has a similar compressor wheel w a larger hot side wheel.. BW PN 177272 or 177280.

stay in touch.

Howard

 

Thanks Howard,
You opinion is much respected! I can not afford a 5th engine! ...and i'm sure they are more then $12k now. Thanks to my procrastination skills I will review the ones you suggest.

I will have the water injection eventually installed which will cost me and I still have to do the FPR and lines. If I go over budget on parts then I won't be able to get the car running. The JDM Rivo or US Xsessive lower intake manifold is also out.

 

i feel for you re your prior problems. there are numerous paths that FD owners have taken to get to their objectives and given that many of them are on the board it shouldn't be necessary to re-invent the rotor.

your initial post has your injector capacity driving the entire project. sort of the tail wagging the dog.

look at your budget, decide what you want from your FD. if money appears to be a limiting factor i suggest you get to know the classifieds. there are numerous items that can be bought good- used.

the GTX turbo you are currently salivating over is potentially a 480-550 hp turbo.

what clutch do you have? you will need either a 2600 pound single disc pressure plate or a 2000 pound double disc. Exedy is my first choice for both.

if you do not have the above you will be looking at a slipping clutch unless you just cruise your FD.

the list goes on.

you mention 1300s in your primaries as a possibility. given the Power FC has a fixed minimum injector ontime, the larger the primary, the richer the idle unless you change the lag which has other implications.

let's assume you choose the GTX compressor/turbo...



as you can see the GTX35 compressor wheel makes around 73/74 pounds of air at 2.8 pressure ratios (26.5 psi). that's 550 rotary rwhp SAE.

you will need 4381 net CC/Minute or 5927 Gross/Nominal injector size capacity to run to 10.0 at peak GTX output.

you may be tempted to look at the map and decide you will only run off a boost spring at one pressure ratio (14.7 psi boost). i suggest that whenever fuel requirements are sized you do need to have capacity to handle max turbo output at around 10.0 AFR. things can happen, a boost spike, and you don't want to run lean. fuel is the single most important factor as to longevity and you always want to have too much.

on the bright side, the newer Bosch EV14 injectors are high resistance so you don't need injectors. they also are a big jump ahead of the old stuff tech-wise.

a good GTX setup might be a couple of 1000 CC in the primary and two 2200s in the secondaries.

here's the standard GT35 compressor map...



max air at 60% efficiency is 68 pounds or 512 rwhp. gross inj requirement drops 500 CC/Min to 5483.

about 65 pounds of air at 14.7 psi or 490 rwhp. GTX is 68/513.

all of the above is premised on being able to drive the turbo to the eastern edge of the compressor map. this is dependent on manifolding tune and other factors. others may be better to comment on this subject.

while on the subject of this class of turbos it is worth noting turbine wheel area comparisons as the rotary puts out almost 300 F more EGT than a piston engine and requires around 11% more flow. hotside should not be overlooked.

turbine hotside area average square inches:

GT3582r, GTX3582r............5.171

TDX61r................................5.89

BW 177272/280...................6.13

larger hot sides retain less internal engine heat to pollute the incoming charge air. excess combustion chamber heat promotes detonation which promotes warped or broken apex seals.

don't even think about any of these turbos without some sort of AI system. even running off the spring with either of these turbos and my ports you are going to need combustion chamber cooling. 14 psi from the stock turbos and 14 from one of these turbos is of course not the same thing as there is a ton more oxygen and fuel entering the motor as evidenced by the compressor map.... maybe high 400 rear wheel V mid 300s w the stock turbo setup.

the FD mod path is a demanding process.... you are taking a small displacement engine and greatly increasing the power producing flow thru it. everything has to be right and there are certain areas that are on the must do list.

i am enjoying my FD adventure that started in 99. if you feel you won't enjoy the process i suggest taking a pass or enlisting someone to do it for you.

often money is a limiting factor. in such a circumstance understanding the "must do's" is crucial as well as realizing that the process may take more time than you'd like is important.

take your time and build it right. built right, the FD is one of a very few cars that will reward the most demanding owner.

howard

 

your initial post has your injector capacity driving the entire project. sort of the tail wagging the dog.

I thought that's how I had to start since it's the limiting factor. Well, I could do a FFE secondary rail with 2000cc EVI injectors and retain the OEM primary rail with either 850's or 1300's. What do you sugest?

the GTX turbo you are currently salivating over is potentially a 480-550 hp turbo.
True, but on all three of those turbos the drool factor is how soon they spool and how much more power they deliver at 1bar.

you may be tempted to look at the map and decide you will only run off a boost spring at one pressure ratio (14.7 psi boost).
I have the Apexi boost contol kit with their 3bar map sensor.

don't even think about any of these turbos without some sort of AI system
I have the complete kit with the summer unit. It was the lastest version two years ago. I'm only missing the water container.

Getting off topic in a tangent...
My original passion was a '69 Stingray with a L88. I would have settled for a small block 350 as long as it was convertible, had side pipes and black racing stripes on white like the model i've had since I was a kid. I admit I lost my passion after my attempt to have my turbo rebuilt, paying for it and realize i'm the bumpkin on idocracy that tells the hooker oh I can wait soo good. So I see a 69 convertible COrvette at Coscto getting gas he tells me he bought it for $17.5k fully restored and I look like the Native American on the pollution commercial. Ok, I got some spark back from the Mario Andretti commercial as driving the 69 Corvette on the track is like the screaming passenger and the RX7 is like Andretti listening to classical music.

Back on track...
I'm trying to decide on those you listed. I'm torn between Himni and Turblown full kits.
One of the factors is kit and build quality. With the 500R being a hybrid conversion, it was just a PIA to install and remove. I need to be able to work on the car myself and not have to do fabrication.

I also have the HKS ignition and other stuff not installed I can't remember. Oh an Exedy Twin plate clutch. Two transmissions, two Nardi steering wheels. I was going to put my Nismo 19x9 & 19x10 wheels on it to but that requires a body kit because of the offsets.

as you can see the GTX35 compressor wheel makes around 73/74 pounds of air at 2.8 pressure ratios (26.5 psi). that's 550 rotary rwhp SAE.
I had only planned on 15lbs on 91 octane and 20lbs with water injection. 25lbs on the street, if doable, would take some/A lot of self control.