My stockport 401 HP pull *vid*
06-11-06, 02:34 PM
#26
Originally Posted by 1Revvin7
Agreed. I've seen a hair of 468rwhp twice on stock FC blocks running 60-1 turbos @ 14.5psi.
edit: is the s5 intake and tb any differant than the s4 crispeed?
06-11-06, 02:51 PM
#27
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Revvin7
Agreed. I've seen a hair of 468rwhp twice on stock FC blocks running 60-1 turbos @ 14.5psi.
That's pretty impressive.
The most I've seen with stock FC blocks at 15-16 psi is around 380rwhp with a 60-1. I've seen 460 to 500rwhp at 18-20psi with a ported motor though.
Originally Posted by 1Revvin7
Agreed. I've seen a hair of 468rwhp twice on stock FC blocks running 60-1 turbos @ 14.5psi.
That's pretty impressive.
The most I've seen with stock FC blocks at 15-16 psi is around 380rwhp with a 60-1. I've seen 460 to 500rwhp at 18-20psi with a ported motor though.
06-11-06, 02:59 PM
#28
[QUOTE=: is the s5 intake and tb any differant than the s4 crispeed?[/QUOTE]
The intakes are little different. Supposedly it does flow a little better. The TB's are the same though. I'm not a lover of the factory FC intake. All of my high horsepower FC build ups were based on custom intakes.
The intakes are little different. Supposedly it does flow a little better. The TB's are the same though. I'm not a lover of the factory FC intake. All of my high horsepower FC build ups were based on custom intakes.
06-11-06, 03:56 PM
#30
[QUOTE=crispeed]
The intakes are little different. Supposedly it does flow a little better. The TB's are the same though. I'm not a lover of the factory FC intake. All of my high horsepower FC build ups were based on custom intakes.
interesting, and do you make these intake setups yourself? how much do they usually go for? thanks
Originally Posted by : is the s5 intake and tb any differant than the s4 crispeed?[/QUOTE
The intakes are little different. Supposedly it does flow a little better. The TB's are the same though. I'm not a lover of the factory FC intake. All of my high horsepower FC build ups were based on custom intakes.
interesting, and do you make these intake setups yourself? how much do they usually go for? thanks
06-11-06, 04:03 PM
#31
Originally Posted by crispeed
I have personally not found any differences in the two types of motors everything else being equal up to about 600 rwhp. The porting is not to blame. Now if you said intake manifold differences then I would agree. 
I think that the timing is EXTREMELY retarded, as in like 12 degrees advance up in the higher ranges. Trevor is going to download the map and go ahead and make some big changes. More to come!
Oh, and I am out of injector too, so I have to get bigger secondaries..
Last edited by J-Rat; 06-11-06 at 04:07 PM.
06-11-06, 09:33 PM
#36
Originally Posted by J-Rat
I think that the timing is EXTREMELY retarded, as in like 12 degrees advance up in the higher ranges.
..
..
06-11-06, 09:46 PM
#37
Originally Posted by J-Rat
Well, that is good information to know. I was under the impression that the S4 motors had fairly small ports, but given your reputation, I guess I had better rethink that.
I think that the timing is EXTREMELY retarded, as in like 12 degrees advance up in the higher ranges. Trevor is going to download the map and go ahead and make some big changes. More to come!
Oh, and I am out of injector too, so I have to get bigger secondaries..
I think that the timing is EXTREMELY retarded, as in like 12 degrees advance up in the higher ranges. Trevor is going to download the map and go ahead and make some big changes. More to come!
Oh, and I am out of injector too, so I have to get bigger secondaries..
Where is your egt and what does it read?
06-11-06, 10:30 PM
#38
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Originally Posted by J-Rat
Man, you aint lying.. First and second gear pretty much become worthless.
06-12-06, 06:42 AM
#41
Originally Posted by crispeed
Quo
That's pretty impressive.
The most I've seen with stock FC blocks at 15-16 psi is around 380rwhp with a 60-1. I've seen 460 to 500rwhp at 18-20psi with a ported motor though.
That's pretty impressive.
The most I've seen with stock FC blocks at 15-16 psi is around 380rwhp with a 60-1. I've seen 460 to 500rwhp at 18-20psi with a ported motor though.
06-12-06, 12:52 PM
#44
few things, but first CONGRATS in being in the 400 HP club 
A few of you guys are getting turbo's confused or maybe J-Rat missnamed his turbo. The T61 and 60-1 are not the same turbo. The T61 is a larger flowing turbo then the 60-1. It out flows and is better suited to higher pressure ratios then the 60-1. Were the 60-1 puffs a 45 lb per minute at a pressure ratio of 2.00 (14 psi approx) still remaining on its main map island (75~77% effciency), the T61 can huff out 55 lbs/min at a pressure ratio of 3.0 and be on its main map island (76% effciency). Two very different turbo compressors. Its a bigger huffer then the GT35R. The GT35R is very VERY simular to the 60-1 up to a pressure ratio of 2.0 (1 bar or 14~15 psi), from 1 bar and up the GT35R keeps flowing to 2.6 pressure ratio while the 60-1 was done after 2.2. Again, I'm only using the main map islands, even 1 or two islands larger and your still making good power, I'm just using map island 1 for comparison.
With that, I'd say yes, hes down on power. but theres sooo many factors such as dyno type, dyno age, calibration, operator, engine health, manifolds, intake and exhaust plumbing, and of corse tunning amoung many other factors. either way, 400 pwhp no matter how yourmaking it, is a fun ride to have.
As for the s4,s5 and s6 manifolds. The s5 has the same design features and near the same runner length as the s4, but its runner diameters are quite a bit larger. So much larger infact, that the s5 runners are bigger diameter then the s6 manifolds "sorta". At least if measured from 3~4" before the mating area from lower intake to upper intake. The s6 manifolds upper secondaries have a lot of taper when compared to the s5 and start off at a larger diameter then the s5, but once past the first two thirds of the upper its smaller then the s5 runners all the way to the port. i'm sure the s6 flows more then the s5 though even with the smaller port runners, just due to the design. The s4 and s5 have a complex and twisty runner set up. lastly on this subject, the port runner just in the irons are not much different in diameter between the s4, s5, s6 engines. The s6 have a lot more port timing and volume in the secondaries, but the actual runner is very very close in diameter to the older engines. Its an optical illusion. The s6 runners come in at the engine at a angle (for more clearance for those space robbing and complex twins under the intake) were the s4/s5 come in perpendicular to the block. Well, you say so what, just look at the differance in the ports, you can see how BIG the s6 is. Well, your wrong, its not much bigger if any. there roughly the same width, but the height is an optical illusion. Take a pipe, cut it perpendicular or "plumb" and the cross section will be nice and round and measure the same in height and width. Now, take that same pipe and cut it at a 45 or higher degree angle. Now look at the surface you just cut. Its a WHOLE lot longer now huh? But the width remained the same. This is why the s6 appears to have much larger port runners at the block then it actually does. Same with the s5 turbine inlet. If you factor in the flange agle to the runner angle, you'll see just how tiny and restrictive those things are, especialy when compaired to a t4 or even t3. Now the 13bre on the other hand, has some pretty heafty size intake, although they appear larger the they actually are again because the intake enters the block a steep angle.
~Mike...............
A few of you guys are getting turbo's confused or maybe J-Rat missnamed his turbo. The T61 and 60-1 are not the same turbo. The T61 is a larger flowing turbo then the 60-1. It out flows and is better suited to higher pressure ratios then the 60-1. Were the 60-1 puffs a 45 lb per minute at a pressure ratio of 2.00 (14 psi approx) still remaining on its main map island (75~77% effciency), the T61 can huff out 55 lbs/min at a pressure ratio of 3.0 and be on its main map island (76% effciency). Two very different turbo compressors. Its a bigger huffer then the GT35R. The GT35R is very VERY simular to the 60-1 up to a pressure ratio of 2.0 (1 bar or 14~15 psi), from 1 bar and up the GT35R keeps flowing to 2.6 pressure ratio while the 60-1 was done after 2.2. Again, I'm only using the main map islands, even 1 or two islands larger and your still making good power, I'm just using map island 1 for comparison.
With that, I'd say yes, hes down on power. but theres sooo many factors such as dyno type, dyno age, calibration, operator, engine health, manifolds, intake and exhaust plumbing, and of corse tunning amoung many other factors. either way, 400 pwhp no matter how yourmaking it, is a fun ride to have.
As for the s4,s5 and s6 manifolds. The s5 has the same design features and near the same runner length as the s4, but its runner diameters are quite a bit larger. So much larger infact, that the s5 runners are bigger diameter then the s6 manifolds "sorta". At least if measured from 3~4" before the mating area from lower intake to upper intake. The s6 manifolds upper secondaries have a lot of taper when compared to the s5 and start off at a larger diameter then the s5, but once past the first two thirds of the upper its smaller then the s5 runners all the way to the port. i'm sure the s6 flows more then the s5 though even with the smaller port runners, just due to the design. The s4 and s5 have a complex and twisty runner set up. lastly on this subject, the port runner just in the irons are not much different in diameter between the s4, s5, s6 engines. The s6 have a lot more port timing and volume in the secondaries, but the actual runner is very very close in diameter to the older engines. Its an optical illusion. The s6 runners come in at the engine at a angle (for more clearance for those space robbing and complex twins under the intake) were the s4/s5 come in perpendicular to the block. Well, you say so what, just look at the differance in the ports, you can see how BIG the s6 is. Well, your wrong, its not much bigger if any. there roughly the same width, but the height is an optical illusion. Take a pipe, cut it perpendicular or "plumb" and the cross section will be nice and round and measure the same in height and width. Now, take that same pipe and cut it at a 45 or higher degree angle. Now look at the surface you just cut. Its a WHOLE lot longer now huh? But the width remained the same. This is why the s6 appears to have much larger port runners at the block then it actually does. Same with the s5 turbine inlet. If you factor in the flange agle to the runner angle, you'll see just how tiny and restrictive those things are, especialy when compaired to a t4 or even t3. Now the 13bre on the other hand, has some pretty heafty size intake, although they appear larger the they actually are again because the intake enters the block a steep angle.
~Mike...............
06-12-06, 03:42 PM
#48
Originally Posted by RacerXtreme7
few things, but first CONGRATS in being in the 400 HP club
A few of you guys are getting turbo's confused or maybe J-Rat missnamed his turbo. The T61 and 60-1 are not the same turbo. The T61 is a larger flowing turbo then the 60-1. It out flows and is better suited to higher pressure ratios then the 60-1. Were the 60-1 puffs a 45 lb per minute at a pressure ratio of 2.00 (14 psi approx) still remaining on its main map island (75~77% effciency), the T61 can huff out 55 lbs/min at a pressure ratio of 3.0 and be on its main map island (76% effciency). Two very different turbo compressors. Its a bigger huffer then the GT35R. The GT35R is very VERY simular to the 60-1 up to a pressure ratio of 2.0 (1 bar or 14~15 psi), from 1 bar and up the GT35R keeps flowing to 2.6 pressure ratio while the 60-1 was done after 2.2. Again, I'm only using the main map islands, even 1 or two islands larger and your still making good power, I'm just using map island 1 for comparison.
With that, I'd say yes, hes down on power. but theres sooo many factors such as dyno type, dyno age, calibration, operator, engine health, manifolds, intake and exhaust plumbing, and of corse tunning amoung many other factors. either way, 400 pwhp no matter how yourmaking it, is a fun ride to have.
As for the s4,s5 and s6 manifolds. The s5 has the same design features and near the same runner length as the s4, but its runner diameters are quite a bit larger. So much larger infact, that the s5 runners are bigger diameter then the s6 manifolds "sorta". At least if measured from 3~4" before the mating area from lower intake to upper intake. The s6 manifolds upper secondaries have a lot of taper when compared to the s5 and start off at a larger diameter then the s5, but once past the first two thirds of the upper its smaller then the s5 runners all the way to the port. i'm sure the s6 flows more then the s5 though even with the smaller port runners, just due to the design. The s4 and s5 have a complex and twisty runner set up. lastly on this subject, the port runner just in the irons are not much different in diameter between the s4, s5, s6 engines. The s6 have a lot more port timing and volume in the secondaries, but the actual runner is very very close in diameter to the older engines. Its an optical illusion. The s6 runners come in at the engine at a angle (for more clearance for those space robbing and complex twins under the intake) were the s4/s5 come in perpendicular to the block. Well, you say so what, just look at the differance in the ports, you can see how BIG the s6 is. Well, your wrong, its not much bigger if any. there roughly the same width, but the height is an optical illusion. Take a pipe, cut it perpendicular or "plumb" and the cross section will be nice and round and measure the same in height and width. Now, take that same pipe and cut it at a 45 or higher degree angle. Now look at the surface you just cut. Its a WHOLE lot longer now huh? But the width remained the same. This is why the s6 appears to have much larger port runners at the block then it actually does. Same with the s5 turbine inlet. If you factor in the flange agle to the runner angle, you'll see just how tiny and restrictive those things are, especialy when compaired to a t4 or even t3. Now the 13bre on the other hand, has some pretty heafty size intake, although they appear larger the they actually are again because the intake enters the block a steep angle.
~Mike...............
A few of you guys are getting turbo's confused or maybe J-Rat missnamed his turbo. The T61 and 60-1 are not the same turbo. The T61 is a larger flowing turbo then the 60-1. It out flows and is better suited to higher pressure ratios then the 60-1. Were the 60-1 puffs a 45 lb per minute at a pressure ratio of 2.00 (14 psi approx) still remaining on its main map island (75~77% effciency), the T61 can huff out 55 lbs/min at a pressure ratio of 3.0 and be on its main map island (76% effciency). Two very different turbo compressors. Its a bigger huffer then the GT35R. The GT35R is very VERY simular to the 60-1 up to a pressure ratio of 2.0 (1 bar or 14~15 psi), from 1 bar and up the GT35R keeps flowing to 2.6 pressure ratio while the 60-1 was done after 2.2. Again, I'm only using the main map islands, even 1 or two islands larger and your still making good power, I'm just using map island 1 for comparison.
With that, I'd say yes, hes down on power. but theres sooo many factors such as dyno type, dyno age, calibration, operator, engine health, manifolds, intake and exhaust plumbing, and of corse tunning amoung many other factors. either way, 400 pwhp no matter how yourmaking it, is a fun ride to have.
As for the s4,s5 and s6 manifolds. The s5 has the same design features and near the same runner length as the s4, but its runner diameters are quite a bit larger. So much larger infact, that the s5 runners are bigger diameter then the s6 manifolds "sorta". At least if measured from 3~4" before the mating area from lower intake to upper intake. The s6 manifolds upper secondaries have a lot of taper when compared to the s5 and start off at a larger diameter then the s5, but once past the first two thirds of the upper its smaller then the s5 runners all the way to the port. i'm sure the s6 flows more then the s5 though even with the smaller port runners, just due to the design. The s4 and s5 have a complex and twisty runner set up. lastly on this subject, the port runner just in the irons are not much different in diameter between the s4, s5, s6 engines. The s6 have a lot more port timing and volume in the secondaries, but the actual runner is very very close in diameter to the older engines. Its an optical illusion. The s6 runners come in at the engine at a angle (for more clearance for those space robbing and complex twins under the intake) were the s4/s5 come in perpendicular to the block. Well, you say so what, just look at the differance in the ports, you can see how BIG the s6 is. Well, your wrong, its not much bigger if any. there roughly the same width, but the height is an optical illusion. Take a pipe, cut it perpendicular or "plumb" and the cross section will be nice and round and measure the same in height and width. Now, take that same pipe and cut it at a 45 or higher degree angle. Now look at the surface you just cut. Its a WHOLE lot longer now huh? But the width remained the same. This is why the s6 appears to have much larger port runners at the block then it actually does. Same with the s5 turbine inlet. If you factor in the flange agle to the runner angle, you'll see just how tiny and restrictive those things are, especialy when compaired to a t4 or even t3. Now the 13bre on the other hand, has some pretty heafty size intake, although they appear larger the they actually are again because the intake enters the block a steep angle.
~Mike...............
06-12-06, 04:05 PM
#49
Originally Posted by hondahater
interesting info on the intake size differances. Would there be much of a gain going from an s4 to an s5 intake? Lets say in jrats configuration would he gain more hp going to an s5 intake if he had an s4? (jrat not saying you do have an s4 or anything just hypotheticly).
Also if he has FC rotor housings eliminating the colant flow into the intake should help.
Last edited by crispeed; 06-12-06 at 04:09 PM.