my new secret weapon(s) :-)
11-12-02, 07:05 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: houston
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my new secret weapon(s) :-)
here is a pic of what my setup for 03 will be. it is coming along well and should be at the dyno in two weeks to get it dialed in.
MWW
MWW
11-12-02, 07:28 PM
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: houston
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i am expecting around 750 to the wheels at under 30 psi of boost.
680...i make all of my parts including that PAIN IN THE *** intake!!! i had a NOS backfire and blew the other one i made apart at the seams, so i had to make a new one and i wanted to use three runners instead of four.
MWW
680...i make all of my parts including that PAIN IN THE *** intake!!! i had a NOS backfire and blew the other one i made apart at the seams, so i had to make a new one and i wanted to use three runners instead of four.
MWW
Trending Topics
11-12-02, 08:33 PM
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: houston
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the twins will create more hp with less boost and provide a wider power band. at 25 psi they are supposed to make enough flow to support 900 h.p. a single turbo would have to be 35+ psi to make that kind of hp and would take forever to spool. the twins are far superior as long as you can spool them and rotaries are great at that!! i just finished a street car with a similar setup and it runs GREAT!! they spool super fast , dont stop pulling and backpressure stays under the boost level.
MWW
MWW
11-12-02, 09:13 PM
#10
Rotary Freak
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MN
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by turbostreetfighter
and backpressure stays under the boost level.
MWW
and backpressure stays under the boost level.
MWW
If I remember right you can't get something from nothing. Can you explain?
11-12-02, 09:37 PM
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: houston
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm still tring to figure out how this is possible If I remember right you can't get something from nothing.
Can you explain?
when i say BP i mean in the header before the turbo. your engine has overlap, which is the point when the intake and exhaust are joining and open at the same time. so when you have more pressure on the exhaust side than the intake side where is the pressure going to go?.....towards the intake which is going to reduce power for a couple of reasons, one being the fact that 1600 degree air goes back into the combustion chamber! and if the ratio is too excessive it can actually surge the turbo. this is not getting something for nothing since the intake side is where the boost is coming from and the exhaust is waste material and heading out of the system.
MWW
Can you explain?
when i say BP i mean in the header before the turbo. your engine has overlap, which is the point when the intake and exhaust are joining and open at the same time. so when you have more pressure on the exhaust side than the intake side where is the pressure going to go?.....towards the intake which is going to reduce power for a couple of reasons, one being the fact that 1600 degree air goes back into the combustion chamber! and if the ratio is too excessive it can actually surge the turbo. this is not getting something for nothing since the intake side is where the boost is coming from and the exhaust is waste material and heading out of the system.
MWW
11-12-02, 11:37 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wayward Hayward
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is a twisted setup!
I think I'm afraid already.... I can't even imagine how the guy who pulls up next to you will feel? Even better how your gonna feel in the second before you romp the throttle!
Very nice!
I think I'm afraid already.... I can't even imagine how the guy who pulls up next to you will feel? Even better how your gonna feel in the second before you romp the throttle!
Very nice!
11-12-02, 11:57 PM
#13
Full Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: North NJ
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by turbostreetfighter
I'm still tring to figure out how this is possible If I remember right you can't get something from nothing.
Can you explain?
when i say BP i mean in the header before the turbo. your engine has overlap, which is the point when the intake and exhaust are joining and open at the same time. so when you have more pressure on the exhaust side than the intake side where is the pressure going to go?.....towards the intake which is going to reduce power for a couple of reasons, one being the fact that 1600 degree air goes back into the combustion chamber! and if the ratio is too excessive it can actually surge the turbo. this is not getting something for nothing since the intake side is where the boost is coming from and the exhaust is waste material and heading out of the system.
MWW
I'm still tring to figure out how this is possible If I remember right you can't get something from nothing.
Can you explain?
when i say BP i mean in the header before the turbo. your engine has overlap, which is the point when the intake and exhaust are joining and open at the same time. so when you have more pressure on the exhaust side than the intake side where is the pressure going to go?.....towards the intake which is going to reduce power for a couple of reasons, one being the fact that 1600 degree air goes back into the combustion chamber! and if the ratio is too excessive it can actually surge the turbo. this is not getting something for nothing since the intake side is where the boost is coming from and the exhaust is waste material and heading out of the system.
MWW
Are you talking about scavenging? Because I don't see how it can work in a rotary since valve timing can not be adjusted and pressure (exhaust) is relieved before the intake port sees the chamber again? However, boost prevents this, No?
Last edited by 94SR2; 11-12-02 at 11:59 PM.
11-13-02, 04:51 AM
#14
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
MWM 
Who said "twins" were **** compared to a single swap !
LOL ...... we need to start a new forum. That looks like you have been busy, where is the cooling system located now ?
Who said "twins" were **** compared to a single swap !
LOL ...... we need to start a new forum. That looks like you have been busy, where is the cooling system located now ?
11-13-02, 06:18 AM
#15
Rotary Freak
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: maryland
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by turbostreetfighter
i just finished a street car with a similar setup and it runs GREAT!! they spool super fast , dont stop pulling and backpressure stays under the boost level.
MWW
i just finished a street car with a similar setup and it runs GREAT!! they spool super fast , dont stop pulling and backpressure stays under the boost level.
MWW
11-13-02, 10:02 AM
#16
SCCA Rookie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 1,936
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
man that's awesome.. I'd love to make my own manifold(s) and do a complete custom setup.. kinda like they do with Formula SAE cars.. I'd have to do lots of research, but I'd imagine that's an intake plenum of correct size (roughly 2 times the engine displacement)? I don't understand why it's good to hvae it like that, like I said I need to do lots of research, but I was told that most race cars do things like that.
11-13-02, 11:43 AM
#17
Rotary Freak
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: l.a.
Posts: 1,640
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Barwick
man that's awesome.. I'd love to make my own manifold(s) and do a complete custom setup.. kinda like they do with Formula SAE cars.. I'd have to do lots of research, but I'd imagine that's an intake plenum of correct size (roughly 2 times the engine displacement)? I don't understand why it's good to hvae it like that, like I said I need to do lots of research, but I was told that most race cars do things like that.
man that's awesome.. I'd love to make my own manifold(s) and do a complete custom setup.. kinda like they do with Formula SAE cars.. I'd have to do lots of research, but I'd imagine that's an intake plenum of correct size (roughly 2 times the engine displacement)? I don't understand why it's good to hvae it like that, like I said I need to do lots of research, but I was told that most race cars do things like that.
11-13-02, 11:47 AM
#18
Rotary Freak
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: l.a.
Posts: 1,640
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by turbostreetfighter
the twins will create more hp with less boost and provide a wider power band. at 25 psi they are supposed to make enough flow to support 900 h.p. a single turbo would have to be 35+ psi to make that kind of hp and would take forever to spool. the twins are far superior as long as you can spool them and rotaries are great at that!! i just finished a street car with a similar setup and it runs GREAT!! they spool super fast , dont stop pulling and backpressure stays under the boost level.
MWW
the twins will create more hp with less boost and provide a wider power band. at 25 psi they are supposed to make enough flow to support 900 h.p. a single turbo would have to be 35+ psi to make that kind of hp and would take forever to spool. the twins are far superior as long as you can spool them and rotaries are great at that!! i just finished a street car with a similar setup and it runs GREAT!! they spool super fast , dont stop pulling and backpressure stays under the boost level.
MWW
11-13-02, 06:56 PM
#20
Rotary Freak
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MN
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by turbostreetfighter
I'm still tring to figure out how this is possible If I remember right you can't get something from nothing.
Can you explain?
when i say BP i mean in the header before the turbo. your engine has overlap, which is the point when the intake and exhaust are joining and open at the same time. so when you have more pressure on the exhaust side than the intake side where is the pressure going to go?.....towards the intake which is going to reduce power for a couple of reasons, one being the fact that 1600 degree air goes back into the combustion chamber! and if the ratio is too excessive it can actually surge the turbo. this is not getting something for nothing since the intake side is where the boost is coming from and the exhaust is waste material and heading out of the system.
MWW
I'm still tring to figure out how this is possible If I remember right you can't get something from nothing.
Can you explain?
when i say BP i mean in the header before the turbo. your engine has overlap, which is the point when the intake and exhaust are joining and open at the same time. so when you have more pressure on the exhaust side than the intake side where is the pressure going to go?.....towards the intake which is going to reduce power for a couple of reasons, one being the fact that 1600 degree air goes back into the combustion chamber! and if the ratio is too excessive it can actually surge the turbo. this is not getting something for nothing since the intake side is where the boost is coming from and the exhaust is waste material and heading out of the system.
MWW
I understand the back pressure comment and how more will cause less hp and more detonation.
11-13-02, 07:59 PM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Marcus.
Lovely set up. Hope to see you run some 7's
. From my experiences at turbo specialties, we used to do all the mustang stuff and we did no telling how many back pressure tests to many turbos. The least amount of back pressure to intake pressure possible is 1-1. If you don't have any backpressure, you won't have any drive for your turbochargers. yes 1-1 is ideal and picture perfect. But anything right at 3-1 is better b/c of airspeed. More airspeed you have in your exhaust the quicker the turbos will spool. You just don't want to have too much back pressure or else the turbos will fall on their face. Not enough back pressure and you won't spool the turbos 
. But with an alcohol BP engine, you won't have a problem above 6 grand . You WILL have some back pressure!!!!! Anyway, good luck and hope to see you succede at the track!
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
Lovely set up. Hope to see you run some 7's
. From my experiences at turbo specialties, we used to do all the mustang stuff and we did no telling how many back pressure tests to many turbos. The least amount of back pressure to intake pressure possible is 1-1. If you don't have any backpressure, you won't have any drive for your turbochargers. yes 1-1 is ideal and picture perfect. But anything right at 3-1 is better b/c of airspeed. More airspeed you have in your exhaust the quicker the turbos will spool. You just don't want to have too much back pressure or else the turbos will fall on their face. Not enough back pressure and you won't spool the turbos . But with an alcohol BP engine, you won't have a problem above 6 grand . You WILL have some back pressure!!!!! Anyway, good luck and hope to see you succede at the track!Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
11-14-02, 02:17 AM
#23
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally posted by FEARED7
Hey Marcus.
Lovely set up. Hope to see you run some 7's. From my experiences at turbo specialties, we used to do all the mustang stuff and we did no telling how many back pressure tests to many turbos. The least amount of back pressure to intake pressure possible is 1-1. If you don't have any backpressure, you won't have any drive for your turbochargers
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
Hey Marcus.
Lovely set up. Hope to see you run some 7's
. From my experiences at turbo specialties, we used to do all the mustang stuff and we did no telling how many back pressure tests to many turbos. The least amount of back pressure to intake pressure possible is 1-1. If you don't have any backpressure, you won't have any drive for your turbochargersBryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
Bryan go get SAE PAPER SP-768, TURN TO PAGE 25 REF TABLE 2
2 Rotor Peripheral Port Turbocharged
Intake pressure 200.6 Kpa (absolute)
Exhaust manifold pressure 152 Kpa (absolute)
Engine speed 8003 rpm.
This is well below 1:1 ratio, It is possible to achieve and is the way to make maximum %Ve from the engine.
My engine runs below a 1:1 ratio as well, spool is good in my books, could be better with different turbine specs, but as I see it you NEVER get something for nothing.
Last edited by RICE RACING; 11-14-02 at 02:20 AM.
11-14-02, 02:35 AM
#24
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally posted by setzep
I'm sorry, I must have worded my question wrong. I meant to ask how is it possible to have more boost pressure than exhaust pressure? I can see how you could get close to having the same pressure (in the exhaust manifold and after the turbos outlet on the compressor) but just don't see how it's possible to have less pressure in the exhaust manifold than after the turbo I understand the back pressure comment and how more will cause less hp and more detonation.
I'm sorry, I must have worded my question wrong. I meant to ask how is it possible to have more boost pressure than exhaust pressure? I can see how you could get close to having the same pressure (in the exhaust manifold and after the turbos outlet on the compressor) but just don't see how it's possible to have less pressure in the exhaust manifold than after the turbo
I understand the back pressure comment and how more will cause less hp and more detonation.
The turbine uses exhaust heat as well as velocity + pulse energy resulting from the "explosion" in the combustion chamber to drive the compressor section. it is pretty true for most systems that if you can stay of the WG as long as you can that you realy are getting free energy or power from the turbo charger as the pressure ratio will always be on the positive side of the compressor, some engines though are not as effected by excesive back pressure between exhaust and intake and so can start waste gating much sooner at the expense of in creasing exhaust back pressure.
Either way turbostreetfighters new set up looks pretty nice to me, I am sure it will go as good as it looks
