Anthony Rodrigues

Hey Chris,
I'm not sure how old you are, but I am 35 and remember those years as the expensive years i.e 1 engine/ meeting. I remember going to a meeting once and being heckled by a group yelling EFI is for Taxi's, Carbys rule etc, etc. Its quiet ironic that two of those guys have their own shops now and rank in the top 10 Rotors in the country. They both run the system that I was developing at that very time. I was high tech with my HKS 48IDA blow through system, and had to use an efi pump and 2 Hobbs switches.(and we talk about 500k/sec today-try 14psi boost = on fully adjustable via weber jet) Hi-tek hey!!!v. Today we talk about a timing split of 5-10deg, back then that was known as timing scatter. I think I came up with a C16 equivalent once but it would eat the paint of a concrete floor and destroy efi pumps in less time than it took to run the quarter. These forums would have been a usefull thing back then, all we needed would have been the internet.
Better stop on the nostalgia trips, it only makes me realise how f@#$*n ignorant we were then. Hang on that is a scary thought, someone will pull this out of an archive in ten years and call us stupid now.
That hurts-Anthony

SPOautos

That is exactly what I was thinking lol

STEPHEN

yogi

As Crispeed siad this kind of idea of using methanol to cool the intake charge and increase the octane level of your fuel has been around for years. I am currently running a methanol enrichment system on 13BT engine with T66 turbo. I am Australian so all figures quoted are Australian ie Hp and fuel. Having siad that my original setup consisted of a standard Jap import S4 motor and on 20 PSI of boost and 98RON (not MON as in the US) fuel with a methanol enrichment system we had over 400RWHP. My new motor that has been ported ect ect ect and will be run in and dyno'd with in the next month or so. It is still running the same ECU activated methanol enrichment system and we are expecting to see 500RWHP on Australian pump fuel with around 25 PSI of boost. RX Steve if your still reading this thread and your interested in how this setup works reply back to this thread for more details. Anyway back to my point that I don't believe that it will be possible to run with no intercooler on a partially methanol fueled turbo'd rotary car as my tuner and my self have discovered that there comes a point in the mixture of the methanol and pump fuel where you lose the value of actually using a combination of the two. If you were running straight methanol you could run your motor non intercooled but I think you will find when you put your motor on the dyno that intake temps will become to high and the tunning of your motor to hard with a non intercooled only partially methanol'd setup.

RX Steve

Well I guess that wasn't my last post here. I just hate it when you tell some one you are going to try something and they say "just forget it". I was looking for potential problems when posting this (I thank you for those) so that I would have some things to research before I start this project. I have done some thinking about the fuel mapping and injector setup but I am yet to find anyone who runs two fuels. However there are no shortage of guys running a fuel enhancer called nitrous oxide.
The methanol setup is a long way from even being drawn up (I am waiting for two people to have some time) but I'm sure we have tha ability to ease into this and make it work.
I am not the brains behind this whole Idea. My buddy with the computer company background who owns the Indy car is. He brought it up and then made the mistake of offering to help make it work. He was in Ohio (racing) this past week and I have a Building Contractors exam in two days so my RX-7 is a long way from our priority right now.
I would like any info you have on your setup Yogi.
I also would like to see any thoughts Crispeed might have on the topic? You race at the local track here and I have run into you there (I used to run a streetbike there in the high 9s) I had Roger at Japtrix rebuild my motor and he speeks highly of you. I am in Miami for the next couple days but will not have my computer. I just popped back home tonight to study and send my wife off on a plane.

Thanx again for all the input! You guys are OK.


Steve

yogi

Basically all my setup consists of is the fuel side of a wet No2 setup. I have a large surge tank connected to a EFI pump with a rising rate fuel regulator hooked up to a No2 fuel solenoid and associated hardware ie jets / fuel delivery system. The system is activated when the ECU triggers the No2 solenoid and started to deliver the fuel. That's the easy bit The hard bit is selecting the right fuel jetting, ratio for your rasing rate regulator and when to trigger the actual delivery of the fuel via your ECU. Every setup is different and this will be come apparent on the dyno / while you are trying to tune it. My car is a street car so in the past I have only used the axillary fuel system when on boost however I have gotten a little bit more serious about performance on this rebuild of my setup and once my car hit's the dyno next month as I am currently running the new motor in we may have the methanol come in a lot earlier. I will keep you posted of the results. RX Steve don't be put off by being told it won't work ..... take all of the input you have been given and run with it you may just discover something the rest of us haven't tried and find it works Good luck and keep us posted of your progress.

Marcel Burkett

I am presently rebuilding my motor(series6) with monster street ports , HURLEY racing seals (apex and side ) and springs etc,etc . I am also planning a water / methanol (and what ever else I might decide to add to the mix) cooling / enrichment system ,I hope to make large amounts of power with this and a T66 @25psi , I know it would work I even read an article where it was used by CORKY BELL , so I am not in doubt , I just thaught that I should stress on the safety aspect of things since you would be exposed to large amounts of the stuff , dont take it the wrong way!!! , anyway JUST BE CAREFUL .

yogi

Marcel ....................... T66 .......... good choice The fact that I am running the same turbo has nothing to do with it ................. lol ........... What are the spec's of your T66 ........ P or Q trim exhaust wheel, ceramic ball bearing, what AR ect ect ??? My motor just needs to be run in and should hit the dyno next month and on 25 PSI I am aiming to see 600 dynojet RWHP on pump gas and methanol enrichment. Any idea what your expecting to see with your setup ???

Marcel Burkett

I am running a P trim turbine wheel with a 1.15 a/r devided tangential exhaust ,the compressor wheel is ,according to TURBONETICS specs a T70 but the GARRET technician said it is a T66 . I am also using a custom 3.5" down pipe up to the cat . location ( cat removed) , and 3.0" from there to the barrel which is also 3" streight through.I dont have the ball bearings but made my exhaust totally devided with two separate wastegates on separate runners ,I am also using a 10.5# cromolly flywheel with this turbo and manifold hoping to minimize the lag time . Intercooler is the large ISUZU NPR with custom 3" piping , E6K , over designed fuel system etc.I am hoping for 500+ , 600 would be even better.

RX Steve

Well, I'm back to work on the car. I am still undecided on water or methanol. I will not be getting much help so it would be hit and miss as far as fuel to air ratios etc. I might just go with water injection like auqamist. I would follow Peters setup as closely as possible since he has no shortage of power.
Marcel is correct about the dangers of methanol. I appreciate the input. I think Crispeed runs methanol only and no intercooler but his is a race only car if I'm not mistaken. I have plenty of other work to do on the car first so I have some time to decide what to do.
I am in the process of building a custom carbon fiber dash right now. It is kind of a PITA because I insist on keeping my A/C. But in Florida in mid summer I will be glad I did this. Also the bar inside the dash that holds the steering column is being made of aluminum and we are stripping out weight where ever we can.

Thanks for the input here. I just had to look this up and try to see if I thought it was worth doing. The answer seems to be "not on the street". Water injection looks like the answer.

Steve

WankelMeister

One thing that you may want to consider, i havent read all the replies so this may have already been covered, but Alchohol has a tendency to wash oil off of cylender/rotor housing walls. This could cause serious side effects in the Rotary, i.e. rotor skipping etc. So you may want to address the oiling issue. Just a thought.

rotorbrain

rx steve, i had some thoughts on your setup. i am planning on doing something of the sort as well except not with methanol. i want it to be boost variable. ive been talking to a guy locally here and we came up with two ideas. one (mine. . . kinda crude) was to have a wastegate actuator hooked up to a microswitch. once boost raises up to the amount you want it will open up and turn on the switch. now, this is an on/off setup. not tuneable. the other setup is to do it with one of those pressure boxes on a compressed air tank. you know how they turn on/off to make sure it has the right amount of pressure in the tank? well, you could use that to cycle your injection setup. im gonna try to use that, but the major problem is that they have such high pressure levels that they actuate at. it either has to be tricked or somehow you have to find one that can read that low. its just a little box and would be great for cleanliness. the reason im using the on/off setup is because im going to run propane injection. itll turn on at "such-n-such" psi and i can tune my fuel injection to compensate for the amount of propane that is injected. i think this would be a clean setup if it works for your needs.

paul