crispeed

Which of the following methods do you believe would have the greatest effect on reducing intake charge temperatures?
Intercooling, Water injection or Nitrous injection.
Please take into consideration that each method is being used on it's own without a combination of the other.

crispeed
87 RX-7 TII
9.204@150.47mph
2600lbs
un-tubbed

RICE RACING

I can only speak for the Intercooling and the Water Injection side of things.

Intercooling would be the best for charge temp reduction, especially if you run a drag type system running an ICE bath, however you need to look at the WEIGHT factor !

Water Injection would be one of the top solutions as the weight increase would be minimal also there is no increased drag from extra heat exchangers etc, unlike NOS it will have a positive effect on the combustion cycle in terms of reducing peak stresses and will allow you to search for more power via greater tuning scope.

We need some NOS experts to contribute, from what I know the tunning can get a bit tricky ?

Resource

Methanol injection, haven't you guys tried methanol?

RICE RACING

He runs that already, but I believe his air temp sensor is before his Injectors hence the high (balistic) air temp readings, may be mount some injectors upstream of the runners Chris ? Give the methanol a good shot at cooling the plenum...... just an idea, don't know how well the fuel distribution will be ?

80-CU.IN.T

I used direct port N20 injection on V8 motors with very good results. VERY VERY expensive learning curve. Melt downs and lots of broken parts. I also used water injection with very good results even with the primitive injectors that were available then. Mid to late 1980s. The new injection nozzles that they have now for water are amazing. I don't know of any changes for N20 because I haven't done any research for quite a wile. I don't think water will be as advantageous with methanol. Large doses N20 are the way to go for cooling and power in my opinion. Just plan on a long and costly learning curve before you get it dialed in for your particular setup.

Marcel Burkett

Water injection of course !!!!!.

93redFD

who make a good water injection kit?? and what does it cost.

Marcel Burkett

www.aquamist.co.uk

Dougie_fresh_007

i believe u can get teh fully mappable system from these guys on ebay for like 680 the 2s system or sumthin

sushi

how about the "N tercooler"? that is good stuff i heard

crispeed

Sorry people for not replying earlier.Got caught up at work.
Anyhow the reason for me asking is because on my setup I'm not running any type of intercooling and lately a lot of people or fellow racers have been running I/C's on their alcohol/methanol fuel setup. Tradition had it that it's not needed when running on that fuel. The thing is I was told from one source that he gained almost 100 RWHP at the same boost just by intercooling.
I'm trying not to have to get one and was just seeking alternative methods to do so.
Peter---- I'm not running the air temp sensor anywhere on the manifold but rather in front of the turbo inlet. The temps on the intake would make it useles to mount it there. Your suggestion to mount it after the injectors do have some merrit though. I did notice that the runners after the injectors do get very cold to the point of water dripping of the intake while at the same time above the injectors would just be to hot too touch.
Your idea to mount some extra injectors further up the intake to help cool the charge earlier should help but like you said I'm worried about fuel distribution. I know of someone doing something like that though. Actually they mounted an injector right at the turbo outlet to spray opposite to the flow so I guess in that way to keep the mixture well suspended and help with fuel distribution. I guess in time with a little experimenting, trial & error and some more $$$$$$ one will figure all these things out.

crispeed
87 RX-7 TII
9.204@150.47mph
2600lbs
un-tubbed

Marcel Burkett

WATER INJECTION!!!!!!!.

JScott

I too am looking into this, but I think C02 would be the better choice. Anybody have experience with these? Basically you put a spray bar across the IC and shoot compressed gas to cool it nice and frosty. I'm slightly conscerned about making the charge too dense for my Haltech to compensate with more fuel.

Any thoughts?

Marshall

I think nitrous would give the best charge temp reduction. Water Injection shines in the combustion chamber rather than upstream. WU usually reduces the temp by 30-40 degrees F but you can do much better than that with nitrous. As far as combustion stability, WI all the way!

SPOautos

What about propane injection??? You wont have to worry about adding additional fuel for it since it is actually a fuel itself, and it will still make a huge difference in air temps.

STEPHEN

Marcel Burkett

Is the cost of maintainence of these auxillary systems important to any of you ?, it is to me thats also why I went with water 'cause its free , as for the best in charge redustion , with water you can drop temperatures so much that enginer power can suffer , it al depends on how much you want to inject.

Marshall

hmmm...

I would think the loss of engine power would be from the excessive water hindering combustion rather than dropping charge temp too much.

Marcel Burkett

Water inj. works in two ways , cooling of the charge and internal cooling of the engine.
To operate properly an engine needs to be at the proper operating temp. , if cooled excessively internally by water injection the power output will fall , unless the engine is flodded with water , combustion will still occur but not optimally.

Marshall

ahh, internally, yes

turbostreetfighter

Crispeed, like you i dont have my temp sensor in the manifold but in front of the turbo, i have also noticed that after a burnout the intake is dripping with condensation. this to me means that the intake air is cold once it gets past the injectors. i dont think that water injection is a good idea with methanol, as you already know there is already double the amount of fuel in the runners and since methanol attracts water it does not seem like a good idea to mix. i know that if you leave methanol in the tank for a few days the car will run like **** because of the water that the methanol has in it. unless you can make sure that the water is fully evaporated before it gets into the cumbustion chamber i dont think it is a good idea. remember folks we are running on methanol not gas. i have been playing with a small shot of NOS and it seems to work well, after all how cold is NOS? way colder than ANY intercooling system and it mixes well with methanol.

dont forget that you have to use larger solenoids for the fuel side of the NOS. NX makes methanol solenoids and has the correct jets.

MWW

Resource

Are we talking about running methanol instead of gas or just adding methanol injection with your gas?

turbostreetfigher seems to be running straight meth.Correct?

Resource

What size jet are you guys using for your methanol injection?


Crispeed???

80-CU.IN.T

An air to water intercooler is the next best solution to N20. Since you are drag racing your reserve won't have to be too large so weight will not be a concern. Using ice can definitely drop your intake temperature below ambient air temp even before methanol is introduced. 1- X- drag racer's daughter that I know of uses it with very good results. My next door neighbor in Al kubo so I guess you know who his daughter is. She just landed a new ride and will start testing their new car at the end of this month. I'm hopping for an invite because one of her sponsors is going to be there and I am hopping I will be able to pick his brain about current N20 systems. Unfortunately, the fewer people the better when testing ( less distractions) and besides I would just get in the way.

Keep up posted on your decision and let us know your results.

turbostreetfighter

Crispeed and i are not running methanol injection, we both run straight methanol for fuel!!! since the charge temp of methanol is soo cool, intercoolers are not necessary ( supposedly). Crispeeds question is, what extra form of cooling the charge air is the most effecient. i cannot imagine a intercooler giving 100 more hp on a methanol burning setup. i dont have the room for a IC so NOS is the only option for me and it also make the car faster at the same time.

MWW

80-CU.IN.T

I agree - 100 Hp is a little hard to swallow when using methanol but even with the huge turbos that the 2 of you are using I would imagine that intake temps are around 220 degrees F. or higher at 30+ LBS of boost. An air to water intercooler can drop that temp down tremendously even below ambient temps. Intercooler design, size and liquid being the determining factor. Every degree dropped in temp will help the cooling affects of methanol when it is injected into the air stream. How much is the $1,000,000 question for sponsership.